cj.myfreeforum.org

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Churches can't petition government
2/28/12 An attorney considers it unconstitutional that Christians in El Paso, Texas, could be indicted for their role in the recall of the mayor and two city council members.
Citizens fought back with the referendum process when Mayor John Cook and city council Reps. Susie Byrd and Steve Ortega approved domestic partner benefits, including for homosexuals. Going against voter wishes, the city council again voted for them, which prompted the recall election effort and the involvement of Pastor Tom Brown, president of Word of Life Church, and other Christians (see earlier story).

The efforts were successful, but the Texas Eighth Court of Appeals ruled Friday that the petitions be decertified and that "no election thereon may be called or held."
"The appeals court in Texas has stopped the recall election because one of the supporters of the recall election was supposedly a church, and according to the Texas appeals court, a church cannot be involved in a recall election," reports Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney Joel Oster.
But he argues that it is unconstitutional to deny churches the right to petition.

"It absolutely is a violation of free speech and a violation of the right to petition your government for the redress of grievances," Oster contends. "The Supreme Court already spoke on this issue and said that even corporations have free speech rights and that states cannot restrict the speech of even corporate entities."

An appeal will be lodged with the Texas Supreme Court. But in the meantime, church officials are concerned that they could be thrown in jail.
"In fact, the district attorney [has] already convened a grand jury for this Wednesday to be called to prosecute and to indict these officials," the ADF attorney reports. "It's outrageous!"
As Pastor Brown and the other defendants work on their case, they claim they did not get a fair hearing from the appeals court, which "made up their mind before the oral arguments."
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1544482

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Church Ordered to Stop Giving Away Free Water
2/27/12 A Louisiana church was ordered to stop giving away free water along Mardi Gras parade routes because they did not have the proper permits.
“We were given a cease and desist order,” said Matt Tipton, pastor of Hope Church in Metairie, LA. “We had no idea we were breaking the law.”

Tipton said volunteers from his church were handing out free coffee and free bottles of water at two locations along a Mardi Gras parade route when they were stopped by Jefferson Parish officials. The church volunteers were cited for failing to secure an occupational license and for failure to register for a sales tax.
“It kind of threw me for a loop because they weren’t in uniform,” he said. “But once they pulled the ticket out, I was conviniced.”
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstar...p-giving-away-free-water.html?utm

Who does your Pastor take orders from, God or Government!
If you have noticed changes in your church, you best start asking questions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U2bDkixql8

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Someone posted this over on PPF...(copying and pasting it)

Christian churches in THIS country HAVE ALWAYS BEEN immune (as opposed to exempt) from taxation... unless they are foolish enough to surrender their God-given sovereignty for a bowl of toxic pottage.

This is from one of the links I previously posted:
"Congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (U.S. Constitution, First Amendment).

According to the Internal Revenue Code, "a church, its integrated auxiliaries, and conventions and associations of the church are excluded from taxation." United States Code, Title 26, 508(c)(1)(A).

Section 508(c) of the Internal Revenue Code provides that churches
are not required to apply for recognition of Section 501(c)(3) status in order to be exempt from federal taxation or to receive tax deductible contributions. Churches are automatically exempt from Federal income tax, and contributions to churches are deductible by donors under section 170.

Elsewhere, the IRS states: "Although a church, its integrated auxiliaries, or a convention of churches is not required to file Form 1023 to be exempt from federal income tax or to receive tax deductible contributions, such an organization may find it advantageous to obtain recognition of exemption (Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557). Just what "advantage" is there for a church in obtaining 501(c)(3) recognition and thereby exchanging its sovereignty for a subordinate status in relation to the federal government? Most people would answer that such grants the church exemption from taxation. However, we have already seen that the federal government has never been able to tax the Church of Christ; the Church is not exempt from taxation, it is immune. The "advantage" is something else entirely: "By establishing its exemption, potential contributors are assured by the [Internal Revenue] Service that contributions will be deductible" Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557. The tragic irony of all this is that, according to the Internal Revenue Code, financial donations to an unregistered, unincorporated church are automatically tax-deductible (26 USC 170-B).

The government has no constitutional authority over the Church. It is not allowed to violate the First Amendment protection that the constitution provides. In fact the government may not infringe on any of our constitutional rights at all. They have found a way around this of course. To hold out an unbiblical advantage hoping an ignorant clergy person will take the bait and bring the church into voluntary compliance by forming a 501( C )(3) corporation, thus placing the church under the authority of the state.

Once the church has been transformed into a corporation it then becomes subject to control by federal and state governments. In truth an incorporated church is no longer a church!! but merely a non-profit organization. Once a church incorporates the new non-profit organization is subject to total control by the government. You will be controlled on who you hire, what you can and cannot preach. You cannot conflict with public policy nor assault the hearer's sense of mental well being, self-esteem, sexual orientation etc. You can be sued. The IRS prohibits such organizations from "carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting to influence legislation" (26 USC 501-C-3). This prohibition extends, not only to the endorsement of a political candidate, but also any other attempts to "influence legislation," including taking a public stand against such government-protected abominations, such as abortion or homosexuality. Now, the church is discovering that favors from Washington, DC have strings attached. In this case, the string is a rope that is being used to throttle her once-powerful voice, to squeeze out her very life and, eventually, to hang her by the neck until dead!

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

Although Johnson proffered this as a "favor" to churches, the favor also came with strings attached (more like shackles). One need not look far to see the devastating effects 501c3 acceptance has had to the church, and the consequent restrictions placed upon any 501c3 church. 501c3 churches are prohibited from addressing, in any tangible way, the vital issues of the day.

For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out.

Did the church ever need to seek permission from the government to be exempt from taxes? Were churches prior to 1954 taxable? No, churches have never been taxable. To be taxable a church would first need to be under the jurisdiction, and therefore under the taxing authority, of the government. The First Amendment clearly places the church outside the jurisdiction of the civil government: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Religion cannot be free if you have to pay the government, through taxation, to exercise it. Since churches aren't taxable in the first place, why do so many of them go to the IRS and seek permission to be tax-exempt? It occurs out of:

Ignorance ("We didn't know any better")
Bandwagon logic ("Everyone else is doing it")
Professional advice (many attorneys and CPAs recommend it)
Does the law require, or even encourage, a church to organize as a 501c3? To answer that question let's turn to what the IRS itself has to say.

Churches Need Not Apply
In order to be considered for tax-exempt status by the IRS an organization must fill out and submit IRS Form 1023 and 1024. However, note what the IRS says regarding churches and church ministries, in Publication 557:

Some organizations are not required to file Form 1023. These include:
Churches, interchurch organizations of local units of a church, conventions or associations of churches, or integrated auxiliaries of a church, such as a men’s or women’s organization, religious school, mission society, or youth group. These organizations are exempt automatically if they meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3).
Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Exempt”
According to IRS Code § 508(c)(1)(A):

Special rules with respect to section 501(c)(3) organizations.
(a) New organizations must notify secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status.
(c) Exceptions.
(1) Mandatory exceptions. Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches.
This is referred to as the "mandatory exception" rule. Thus, we see from the IRS’ own publications, and the tax code, that it is completely unnecessary for any church to apply for tax-exempt status. In the IRS’ own words a church “is automatically tax-exempt.”

Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Deductible”
And what about tax-deductibility? Doesn’t a church still need to become a 501c3 so that contributions to it can be taken as a tax deduction? The answer is no! According to IRS Publication 526:

Organizations That Qualify To Receive Deductible Contributions
You can deduct your contributions only if you make them to a qualified organization. To become a qualified organization, most organizations other than churches and governments, as described below, must apply to the IRS.
In the IRS’ own words a church “is automatically tax-deductible.”

Churches Have a Mandatory Exception To Filing Tax Returns
Not only is it completely unnecessary for any church to seek 501c3 status, to do so becomes a grant of jurisdiction to the IRS by any church that obtains that State favor. In the words of Steve Nestor, IRS Sr. Revenue Officer (ret.):

"I am not the only IRS employee who’s wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn’t owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they’ve always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control."
from the Forward of In Caesar's Grip, by Peter Kershaw

http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

TRUE PRAISE AND WORSHIP
The Lord Jesus told the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well that the Father is seeking true worshippers, who will worship Him in Spirit - and in TRUTH.
He also told her that she and the Samaritans worship "ye know not what" - an appropriate description of most of the "praise and worship" that goes on in typical American state churches today, that are filled with Christians that care more about a spiritual "experience" than they do truth, and that are ruled more by Caesar than they are by Christ.
True worship is not just about music styles or the lifting of the hands to the Lord on Sunday; it is SACRIFICE; it is a LIFESTYLE of sacrificial obedience and submission to Christ's Lordship, expressed every day. Please listen to the message.
Audio sermon link inside this link:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=511121354260

Lawmakers: Force Churches to Host Queer pseudoweddings
Religious liberty groups are blasting a proposed ordinance that would force churches in Hutchinson, Kan. to rent their facilities for gay weddings and gay parties.
The Hutchinson City Council will consider adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the protected classes in the city’s human relations code. They are expected to vote on the changes next month.

According to the Hutchinson Human Relations Commission, churches that rent out their buildings to the general public would not be allowed to discriminate “against a gay couple who want to rent the building for a party.”
Meryl Dye, a spokesperson for the Human Relations Commission confirmed to Fox News that churches would be subjected to portions of the proposed law.
http://nation.foxnews.com/separat...-force-churches-host-gay-weddings

'501c3' Teaser (Official)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLShQ5wMUIw

Trail of Blood Video, Pastor Greg Dixon
http://thetrailofblood.net/?page_id=2

501(c)3 tax exemption and the Prostitution of American Churches
http://brie-hoffman.hubpages.com/...Prostitution-of-American-Churches

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Mega churches mean big business
January 21, 2010 Mega churches across the United States are becoming increasingly popular which is not only bringing thousands of worshippers together, but also billions of dollars in profit.
From self-help books to CDs and DVDs, mega churches are becoming big money makers for the pastors and ministries they are a part of.
Mega churches are extra-large churches that can accommodate upwards of 15,000 people and are common among members of the evangelical Christian faith.

Scott Thumma, professor of sociology and religion at Hartford Seminary told CNN that "the mega church on average has about $6.5 million in income a year."
"If you put together all the mega churches in the United States, that's easily several billion dollars."

Many ministers in the evangelical faith have become superstars in their own right - Joel Osteen is one in particular.
Osteen is a pastor at the Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas and his televised service reaches over seven million people each week across the United States and around the world.
The Lakewood Church which Osteen is in charge of has a yearly budget of more than $80 million, but church officials deny that it's about money.

"We hear the criticism a bit, but we don't hear it as much as you think we would," Donald Iloff Junior, advisor for Lakewood Church said.
"One thing you find very absent is the asking of money and never once have we asked for money or donations on television."

However, some critics argue that it's hard to be both a pastor and someone in charge of a yearly budget in the tens of millions.
When you have pastors thinking of themselves as CEOs, it's hard to tell the difference between a pastor and P-Diddy," Jonathan Walton, Assistant Professor of religious studies at the University of California Riverside told CNN.

[b]The way the sermon is told at these mega churches has also completely changed.
"The plasma screen TVs have replaced crosses, Power Point-like presentations of the words of songs and liturgical practices have replaced the hymnals," Walton said.
"This really resonates with a younger generation."

The average age of a mega church worshipper is 40 years old -- 13 years younger than at a traditional church.
Mega church worshippers tend to not only be younger, but also more diverse.

"One thinks of them as a homogeneous group of white suburban American, but in fact when you go to most of the mega churches, you're going to find diversity of age, income and education levels," Thumma said.
"You can also find racial diversity because in almost 30 percent of these mega churches across the country, you have 20 percent or more integration of ethnic groups so it really is quite staggering."
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-2...rshippers-joel-osteen?_s=PM:WORLD

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Holder to brief black pastors on campaign 2012
May 29, 2012 Attorney General Eric Holder, the IRS, and the liberal lawyers at the ACLU will brief several hundred pastors in the African American community on how to participate in the presidential election -- which the Congressional Black Caucus chair expects will help President Obama's campaign.

"We will have representatives from nine denominations who actually pastor somewhere in the neighborhood of about 10 million people, and we're going to first of all equip them with the information they need to know about what they can say and what they cannot say in the church that would violate their 501c3 status with the IRS," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., told MSNBC today.
"In fact, we're going to have the IRS administrator there, we're going to have the Attorney General Eric Holder there, we're going to have the lawyers' organization from around the country, the ACLU -- all giving ministers guidance about what they can and cannot do," he noted.

Cleaver said they would not tell pastors which candidate to support. They will let them know who to regard as the bad guys, though (hint: not Democrats). "We're going to talk about some of the draconian laws that have cropped up around the country as a result of the 17 percent increase in African American votes," Cleaver said, describing voter ID laws as a form of Jim Crow-style "poll tax" on seniors and black voters.

The CBC chairman is confident that "President Obama is going to get 95 percent of the [African American] vote," and wants to keep that turnout high. "We want to let them know that there is a theological responsibility to participate in the political process, at least in the Judeo-Christian tradition," he said.
http://campaign2012.washingtonexa...lack-pastors-campaign-2012/567501

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

FYI, BEWARE of some of these "Christian" ministries that are calling out the Obama "health care" plan and offering "alternatives", BUT...they THEMSELVES are 501c3!

http://www.samaritanministries.org/

If you are a committed Christian, you do not have to violate your faith by purchasing health insurance from a company that pays for abortions and other unbiblical medical practices. You can live consistently with your beliefs by sharing medical needs directly with fellow believers through Samaritan Ministries’ non-insurance approach. This approach even satisfies the individual mandate in the recent Federal health care law (Sec. 1501 (b) of HR 3590 at pg. 327, 328).

AND...

Samaritan Ministries is a tax exempt charity under the internal revenue code (501c3). We recognize that only God can provide for all our needs, and He has many ways He can provide. Shares from members, discounts from health care providers, or extra gifts from friends, family, churches, and community are all ultimately from His hand.

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Another thing - churches, under the 1st ammendment of the US Constitution, are ALREADY non-taxable b/c of the clause that the state can't favor one religion over another. So why in the world are alot of these churches having this misperception that they have to go to the state to get permission to preach the gospel, when the US Constitution gave just that in the 1st ammendment? Jesus, the Apostles, and the home churches in the New Testament didn't go to Caesar to get permission, did they?

And who cares if the state offers churches to write off their donations on their 1040s? For one, it's not going to amount to much anyways(ie-let's say you give $10K, at best you'll get a $3K refund, which means you threw away $7K, and that entire amount was likely planted on rotten soil. You get the drift here). Two, Rejoice that Christians have the FREEDOM to PREACH THE GOSPEL, and FREELY! Yoking up with 501c3 will only fork over your 1st ammendment rights, and hinder you from doing so.

And as for this "tithing" nonsense, which alot of these 501c3 pastors abuse and take advantage of b/c donations can be written off...alot of these "tithes" go in the salaries of pastors and other church employees, as well as alot of the overhead nonsense like building bigger buildings, funding bigger parking lots, funding fruitless programs, etc. Rarely does it get used to help the poor, widows, and fatherless WITHIN the church bodies.

Seriously - when you see alot of these "churches" where the pastors are making 6 figures, the buildings and programs are state-of-the-art, and alot of the pews are just barely making ends meet(despite doing everything they can to drop their 10% in the offering plates), something is incredibly wrong with the modern-day system. It's as if you're looking at a typical dictatorship where the ruling elite are the ones controlling the money supply, and the citizens are the ones struggling to make ends meet.

Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Jas 5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Jas 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Jas 5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
Jas 5:5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
Jas 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

UK: Christians not convinced by promise to protect churches
20 August 2012 David Cameron has promised that churches and other places of worship will not be forced to carry out gay marriages, but Christians remain unconvinced.
A poll by ComRes has found that nearly eight out of 10 churchgoers (79%) believe that the Prime Minister's pledge is worthless.

Of the 569 churchgoers surveyed, 86% said that even if the Government changes the law to exempt religious buildings this will be overturned by the European Court of Human Rights.
Colin Hart, campaign director of C4M, which commissioned the ComRes poll, said the Government's plans to legalise gay marriage were "ill thought out and undemocratic".

"Churchgoers simply don’t believe the assurances from the Government that these changes will not be forced on churches," he said.
He pointed to recent reports of leaked emails in Scotland which indicated that clergy could be forced to carry out gay weddings against their beliefs if the Government fails to change the Equalities Act.
http://in.christiantoday.com/arti...mise-to-protect-churches/7533.htm

CJ · Site Admin Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Posts: 10157

Because they did not receive the love of the Truth so as to be saved. For this reason
God will send upon them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false (a LIE).
2 Thesselonians 2:10-11

Where do we go from here?
September 6, 2012 excerpts from Pastor Chuck Baldwin
Chuck Baldwin was one of the featured speakers at Paul Fest.

The Republican National Convention in Tampa was a disgusting display of chicanery and duplicity!
We don’t have a free and fair political process in America anymore! We have a Soviet-style political apparatus that thrives on manipulation and dishonesty.
Welcome to the United Soviet Socialist America!
Thousands of patriot Christians are fed up with mainstream churches and pastors, and want patriot pastors who know whats going on and are not afraid to speak the truth.
Anyone who has paid any attention to what the Republican Party has done to Congressman Ron Paul and his supporters must be outraged at the utter lack of integrity of a fair political process.

Many now support the phony conservative Mitt Romney.
I dont buy the “anybody-but-Obama” mantra, either!
In many ways, an unprincipled, compromising pseudo-conservative Republican is worse than an obviously liberal Demoncrat.

That being said, where do we go from here?
Regardless who is elected President in November, nothing good will be done to
stop or slow down the burgeoning police state that is enveloping our nation.
By 2016, there wont be many liberties left in this country, regardless which party captures the White House.

Boil the frog S L O W L Y

Americans are no longer worthy of liberty, they are soft, materialistic and too content with life to recognize the loss of liberty.
They think they are free but the noose is tightening.

Americans are lazy about finding truth. The truth is out there. BUT THEY DONT CARE! THEY DONT WANT TRUTH! THEY WANT THE LIES!
Considering the overwhelming moral evil in America, GOD is bound to let the sword of justice fall.

One of the signs that God is giving a nation over to judgment is a dearth of principled leadership.
Ron Paul’s departure from Congress, along with the way the Republican Party, the national media, and the American people as a whole,
rejected his message of liberty and constitutional government, make it appear that judgment has already begun.

I had to pull excerpts from Chuck's article - click and read, and LISTEN to his sermons.
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/5096
https://twitter.com/#!/drchuckbaldwin

Chuck Baldwin, pastor of Liberty Fellowship church
Service is broadcast live each Sunday at approximately 2:30pm Mountain Time
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/live-stream

Chuck Baldwin archived messages online
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/category/video-messages

ALL TRUTH is from GOD
WATCH one sermon by Baldwin. Very scriptural, excellent.
If you consider him a bit too intense, you have never tried to wake anyone up
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/5063

.

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

BornAgain2 · Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 9592

Millions to Participate in FEMA Drill
October 14, 2012 FEMA Release Number: R3-12-16
PHILADELPHIA, Pa. — On October 18, 2012 over a million people across 5 states and the District of Columbia are scheduled to take part in the first ever Great SouthEast ShakeOut. The ShakeOut is a regional earthquake drill in which participants simultaneously practice the recommended action during an earthquake. This action is known as “Drop, Cover, and Hold On”, which means:
•DROP to the ground
•Take COVER by getting under a sturdy desk or table, and
•HOLD-ON to it until the shaking stops

The states of Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and the District of Columbia are encouraging their schools, businesses, organizations, government agencies, communities, and households to participate in this historic event. These states are being supported by the Central U.S. Earthquake Consortium (CUSEC, www.cusec.org), the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA, www.fema.gov), and many other local, state, federal and volunteer partners. CUSEC coordinates a similar drill across nine Central U.S. states, which had more than 2.4 million participants in February, 2012.

This regional earthquake drill comes on the heels of the one year anniversary of the August 23, 2011 M5.9 Mineral, Virginia earthquake. Last year’s earthquake caused significant damage in Louisa County, Virginia, and also millions of dollars in damages in Washington, D.C. The event is free and open-to-the-public, and teaches easy to do, yet potentially life-saving information.
For more information on the ShakeOut or how to participate in the drill, visit www.shakeout.org
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Mi..._Next_Week/21998/0/38/38/Y/M.html

The 501 (c)(3) INCORPORATED CHURCH
http://biblicallawcenter.com/?p=107