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The Rapture Issue
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CJ
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Thankee Laz!  Smile
The last book of the Holy Bible is the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ to St. John on Patmos.
It is NOT the revelation of John - or the revelations, plural.
It is called the Apocalypse in some bibles, altho that is NOT a correct term.
Our Lord and Saviour is NOT an apocalypse!

READ it
http://biblehub.com/revelation/1-1.htm.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, whether you are pre, mid, or post-trib, scripture makes it clear the Antichrist has to be revealed FIRST.

2The 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


First off, we are already witnessing the falling away of the church - there's ZERO biblical truth being preached at 99% of churches worldwide. With that being said, notice the word AND in between the falling away of the church and the man of sin being revealed.

Ultimately, again, whether you're pre, mid, or post-trib, the AC has to be revealed first before the Lord comes back for his bride.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why aren't Christian's raptured yet?
October 1, 2013  by Bill Jongbloed

Year after year Pastors tell their parishioners that any day now they'll be raptured yet they are all still patiently waiting, why? Few have done serious research into this but I am one who has. My first encounter with the rapture philosohy was in 1974 at the Calvery Chapel house of worship in Costa Mesa, California where I then went to church each Sunday. The Pastor was telling all of us we would be raptured any day and there was even a bumper sticker that said "Beware in case of rapture this vehicle will be unmanned." It is now December 2012, 38 years later and the Pician age(the church age) ends on the 21st of this month and we are all still here on earth. The question is why are we here, or is there something hidden from plain view that we should know about?

In 1974, being a very analitical engineer type with an extreme interest in history and in particular Biblical history,
I decided to to look into the Greek language and see exactly what this rapture philosophy was based upon.
I bought a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and started doing research word by word in the Greek.

My father, who was born in Holland and spoke 6 languages fluently told me a story he heard years before in Holland.
A little girl in Scotland named Margaret who, in 1830, had a dream that started what was called the rapture movement.

Before I continue let me say that if, after reading what follows, you choose to believe the rapture fine
but be prepared so when it does not happen you can deal with what mayhem is coming!

I researched as best I could in the library and could find no references to a rapture before 1830.
I also took each word from the scriptures the Pastor used to justify the rapture back to the original language and found the meanings were twisted.
I made an appointment with the Pastor to discuss this pre-trib rapture philosiphy. I showed up but he refused to discuss the rapture with me stating he knew more about the Bible than I so I should just accept what he taught as the gospel truth. This seemed odd as I had my Strongs Exhaustive Concordance with me as well as all my notes but he simply refused and walked away.

Well that simply fueled my fire to seek the truth and within a few years I had a computer and the internet immerged as an amazing resourse, I found the rapture doctrine indeed began in 1830 after this young Scottish girl, Margaret MacDonald, had a dream. She said she visited Jesus Christ in the clouds and soon her dream caught on and the Biblical phrase being "caught up" was re-interpreted to mean that Christians would be taken up to heaven before the coming tribulation.

I say re-interpreted as if you recall Moses was also "caught up" in a cloud when he was given the Ten Commandments. Did he leave the ground? NO he did not as the phrase meant he was caught up(engulfed) in a cloud that had decended which had God in it. Moses was given the Ten Commandments but he never left the ground. If you actually do your own research you will find the truth and the truth is that the people who are caught up do not leave the ground!!!

Next here are the literal references in Strongs Exhaustive Concordance to the original words and their meanings in Thes 4-17. "Caught"(Strongs reference #726) refers to a word pronounced "har-pad-zo" and refers to being taken(by force) and has nothing to with leaving the ground! The words "up, with, him, and them" actually do not appear in the original Greek writings of this phrase. Now lets look at the words "clouds"(Strongs refernce number 3507). In the Greek it is pronounced "yith-rawn" and it actually just means people. Now take these actual meanings and you find no reference to leaving the ground at all! When translated literally this line in Thess actuaslly means that people are taken by force and that surely is not a rapture! Think about that and then get ready for hard times as they are coming very soon!

The rapture philosophy is also vague! The phrase "one will be taken and one will be left" does not say if the good or the bad one will be taken? It does not even say if one is good and one is bad! Lets look at the parable of the wheat and the tares(weeds) as Jesus says let the tares grow with the wheat. He then said harvest the tares first and burn them. That indicates the weeds(tares) are taken first NOT the wheat and the tares are burned! In the flood of Noah who is taken and who is saved? The evil people were drowned in the flood(taken) and Noah and his family are saved(left)! The same is true in the parting of the Red Sea!  Again the bad are taken (drowned) and the good stay. In the Lords Prayer is says "thy Kingdon come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." How can this happen if the followers of Jesus Christ are removed from earth?
If the good Christian's are taken away in a rapture of the church then why would Armageddon even happen? If you have a contest and one contestant does not show up the other wins by default. The same is true in war as if one side vaporized then the other army would have no army to fight. If you read Ezekiel 36 to 42 their is definately going to be this massive bloody war which necessitates two opposing armies, one good and one evil!!! Therefore if the Christian's are raptured then Satan owns the earth so there is no need for Armageddon.

When the Bible is truly studied in depth it is very clear and it literally becomes impossible to deny the truth and necessity of being a Christian!!! Remember, if you fail to dot an "I" or cross a "T" the true meanings of the Bible will not be found. Me and several friends saw that and took the entire Bible, word for word, back to the original Hebrew and Greek. The rapture is NOT the only false doctrine taught in American Chuches but in this essay I will concentrate only upon the rapture!

There will be Armageddon, the good and bad forced fight it out and the good forces will win! That in itself throws the rapture philosophy into question. I believe the rapture is being used as a sales tool to bring more people into the Christian church! When no rapture happens millions of Christian's will turn away from Christ as they have believed a false doctrine, thus they will ne thinking Christianity is false? This too is written of in the Bible. That makes those who preach this false doctrine money changers as all these rapture craving Christian's give money to their churches. When the rapture doesn't happen there will be blood on these preachers hands and lots of it!!

In Obamacare, I believe that it is madated an RFID chip be inserted between the right thumb and index finger in 2013 and if you refuse you cannot hold a job, buy and sell! Hmmm, does that not fit word "mark" from Rev. 13-13 as when taken back to Greek is has two meanings. One is it is a code undecipherable to the eye(bar code) and the other is an etching(computer chips are etched) so the mark of the beast will arrive next year and it's not a tattoo!

I'd love to escape Armageddon but I am a realist. I know that God labeled his people his "battle ax and weapons of war" and that we, being the good forces, must fight and defeat the evil that permiates earth today. I also know that having traveled the world(53 times to Europe and other countries as well) and also having had homes in Russia, Sweden and Ukraine that the rapture philosophy is laughed at in every country I have been in other than the USA! All over the world Christian people know what the Bible says and truly believe in Jesus Christ, not silly dreams!

I have, for many years, challenged Christian Pastors, starting with the Pastor at the Costa Mesa Calvary Chapel, to debate as to the veracity of the rapture doctrine. As yet I have never had my challenge accepted. My challenge still stands and I recently challenged a local Sunday school teacher and his Pastor to a debate. He, as all the others have, refused and even refused to let me show him the Bible scripture it makes a rapture impossible. His vanity, arrogance and ignorance saddened me as he has no real knowledge of what the Bible says yet he refused to look at Bible scripture that pertains to if a rapture is possible.

Lets see, isnt being vain and arrogant against what the Bible says a Christian should be? The answer is yes and even his vain and arrogant employees ALL refused to even read Bible verses that would have given them pause in their rapture addiction. I say addiction as they exibit charactoristics that to me scream brainwashing!! MY father was in CIC (Counter Intel Corps) for General George Patton in WW-2 and was personal friends with a man known as IKE until Ike passed away in 1969!!! Needless to say I had an interesting upbringing and was exposed to critical thinkers my entire life.

It is time to put this false doctrine known as the rapture into the trash bin of history as
it cannot be justified by what the Good Lord wrote into the most famous book ever written, the Bible!

In many foreign countries Christian's are beheaded for refusing, under threat of death, to give up their belief in Christ. Would these rapture Christian's give up their lives for their faith in Jesus Christ? NO is more than likely the answer as there is no get out of Armageddon free card given by God or Jesus. Attending churches run by the missleaders of men will not give you a ticket to Heaven(Hos. 50-6 my people are lost sheep. Their sheppards have led them astray). These Pastors and Sunday school teachers WILL have blood on their hands and find their names removed from the book of life unlkess they stop teaching false doctrine to their parishiners! Those who believed this false doctrine will also be totally screwed as they had time to prepare but didn't thinking they did not have to!
May God above inspire YOU to seek the truth and the truth WILL set you free!
Bill Jongbloed, jongbloed-6-1-0-2-bill@zianet.com

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BornAgain2



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stuff I hear about this rapture doctrine is that prior to the rapture taking place, there will be "peace and prosperity" on the earth.

Well, if you want to use this logic, then the rapture won't happen until another 25 , b/c the global economy is on the verge of collapsing, the ME is a powerkeg, the destruction of America is likely in its final throes, the Apostate Church has reached an all-time low, etc, etc.

Ultimately, yeah, when this strong delusion gets unleashed(which I believe will be this "disclosure" of "aliens" making their big debut appearance), and we're all still here, what are these ministers going to tell their flock?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rapture Problem
October 3, 2013
Why pastors wont take a stand

To review, most pastors refuse to take a stand because:

1. They are success oriented and have an innate aversion to anything that is considered to be controversial, such as politics.

2. They are afraid that if they take a controversial stand, they will lose members and offerings.

3. They have an erroneous interpretation of Romans 13 that civil government must be submitted to regardless of how evil or immoral its laws might be. This wrong interpretation of Romans 13 has made them de facto slaves and worshippers of the state.  (idolatry)  

4. The IRS 501c3 has intimidated pastors and church leaders, they want to stay in the good graces of the IRS, avoid moral and spiritual issues such as slaughtering babies (abortion) and the homosexual abomination.

5. Most pastors are ignorant of the Biblical Natural Law principles of liberty.

But there is one more reason why many pastors will not take a stand on a pre-tribulation rapture.
The word rapture does not appear in the Bible.
The various interpretations of The Second Coming of Christ are almost limitless.
A pre-tribulation rapture of Christians is key part of Dispensationalism, popularized by Darby, Scofield, and Chafer, and more recently Ryrie, LaHaye, and Hal Lindsey.
The idea is that the world is going to continue to get worse and worse until finally the Anti-Christ will arise as a global leader and will usher in 7 years of Great Tribulation, wherein a sizeable portion of the world population will be destroyed. But Christian believers will be raptured into Heaven and avoid this suffering.

I believe many pastors and Christians use rapture to justify sitting back and doing nothing to actively resist evil and wickedness.
Chuck Baldwin goes into a LOT more details.  I just pulled a couple points.
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Artic.../ID/1076/The-Rapture-Problem.aspx

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite pastors who are EXCELLENT on major bible doctrines which NEED to be preached - are still preaching a pre-trib rapture and that irritates me!  Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John MacArthur OUTRAGE - Take Mark of Beast, still be saved

And both Brannon House and Jimmy DeYoung AGREE on this! Twisted Evil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yteZw7VMaRU

Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacArthuer has been in other errors also.  
The bible is clear.
Take the mark - and you are DAMNED FOREVER



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satan’s New Post-Mark-of-the-Beast Salvation Evangelists

Satan’s New Post-Mark-of-the-Beast Salvation Evangelists
25 Oct 2013
 Satan to the world –
“Take my Mark, you can always repent before the wrath of God falls. Listen to my scholars, trust in what they say. Even though Revelation 14:9 says ‘ANY MAN’, you don’t really believe that do you? Isn’t God a forgiving God? You can still live the American Dream I created for you.”

1 Timothy 4:1 – “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils
2 Timothy 3:13 – “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
1 John 2:26-27 – “These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.”

Isaiah 14:12-14 – “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

This is the one and only goal Satan has, everything he is doing is towards this end.

Since Satan is limited, technology will be able to give him the ability to imitate God. The world’s technology grid system being built and deployed for some time now is advancing at a very high rate. Everything is being quickly developed and launched around the world so at some point, Satan will be able to mimic that he knows everything, that he is all powerful and that he will be worshipped by the whole world.

Satan being worshipped by the whole world is a prophecy still yet to be fulfilled but we can see through the Freemasons and other ecumenical organization efforts, this is taking place. Satan has deployed his Masonic, Jesuit, and other unsaved “ministers of righteousness” to turn all towards himself.

The latest missile launched is that one can receive the Mark of the Beast and still be saved using human reasoning.

Twisted Evil

Revelation 14:9-10
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
:”

Even though the Holy Spirit states through John in Revelation 14:9 “ANY MAN… receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand”, somehow the new “Post-Mark Salvation Evangelists” seduce the blinded, men-trusting, disobedient Christians with this new doctrine of demons that bypasses the Word of God with their own satanic human reasoning.

This “Post-Mark Salvation” message appeals directly to the sinful flesh and when the time comes to lay it all on the line and exercise faith to refuse the Mark of the Beast, Satan will be whispering in the ears of Christians –

“Remember what John MacArthur, Jimmy DeYoung, Brannon Howse, and Chris Pinto said? You really trust them, you can still repent after taking the Mark of the Beast, God will forgive you.

Just like John MacArthur states one can be forgiven after taking the Mark and also receive the wrath of God, Chris Pinto himself does the same thing. Chris states he doesn't want anyone to think he is promoting the idea to take the Mark and still repent (Time mark 51:05), Chris also stated "Would that be MY counsel?" "What would be MY wisdom?" (Time mark 44:05), cleverly superseding the counsel of the Word of God found in Revelation 14:9 and Revelation 22:19. So subtle, so crafty, trained well.

Having it both ways, creating doubt, appealing to the sinful flesh and confusion right where it needs to be.

You don’t really believe the Word of God meant “ANY MAN” did you? It’s just two little words. After all, you’re saved already, just “take away” those two little words in Revelation 14:9 and believe God will still forgive you.

You really don’t believe the words “ANY MAN” in Revelation 22:19 do you?

Would God really take your part out in the book of life if you take away the words “ANY MAN”? After all these years?

Just take away those two little words, you can still be saved and buy and sell like before.”

Revelation 22:19 – “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

The Conflict of Chris Pinto, cleverly having it both ways using the “scenario human reasoning” tactic.
Chris Pinto stating he would not teach you can take the Mark of the Beast and repent later on

Time Mark 51:05 transcription -
I hope nobody is going to take from this the idea that Chris Pinto believe and teaches that you can take the Mark of the Beast and go repent later on, that’s not something I would go about teaching.

Chris Pinto cleverly stating the possibility of repentance after taking the Mark of the Beast. It’s smooth.
Time Mark 44:05 transcription -
OK let’s just say somebody took the Mark of the Beast and then afterwards they felt guilty about it and they wanted to repent of it.

Would MY counsel to that person, let’s say they could hear my voice uh through this radio program or in an article or something, would MY counsel be to tell them that they are without any hope whatsoever eternally condemned uh and that there’s no point in trying to repent because they won’t be able to?

Would that be MY counsel? And I have to say no, that would not be MY counsel.
Now certainly if somebody said they “took Mark of the Beast” and they said “what does that mean?”

I would say “well that means you’re going to be burned by the fire of God in the presence of the Holy angels and the smoke of your torment will ascend forever and ever” and then if they said “Can I repent?”

What would be MY wisdom?

Would I look at them and say “All is lost, just forget about it, you are damned to Hell, there’s no hope for you whatsoever.”

Would I say that to them?
Or would I encourage them to repent?

Well I have always believed in the wisdom of the King of Nineveh, I’ve always believed…

The seductive similarities of Chris Pinto’s words and the serpent in the Garden

When looking at the transcript above its clear Chris Pinto has a “MY” problem.

Chris cleverly replaces God’s counsel of Revelation 14:9-10 with “MY counsel” and “MY wisdom” using human scenario reasoning mixed with the Word of God. FIVE times in that short transcript Chris refers to “MY”. Who cares what Chris’s counsel & wisdom is. All that matters is God’s counsel and wisdom.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. That’s where everyone should begin when it comes to wisdom.

The Word of God is clear, “ANY MAN” = “wrath of God”. There is no wiggle room, either you believe the Word of God or you don’t.

When you listen and read the transcript, it has a sound like the serpent. Both tempting, both removing the finality.

Chris stated “Or would I encourage them to repent?”

The serpent said to Eve “Ye shall not surely die”.

A believer that listened to Chris’s words is at the moment of truth of taking the Mark of the Beast and they recall what Chris Pinto said –

“…would MY counsel be to tell them that they are without any hope whatsoever eternally condemned uh and that there’s no point in trying to repent because they won’t be able to?

And I have to say no, that would not be MY counsel.”

“…then if they said “Can I repent?”

What would be MY wisdom?

Would I look at them and say “All is lost, just forget about it, you are damned to Hell, there’s no hope for you whatsoever.”

Would I say that to them?
Or would I encourage them to repent?”

Those are seducing words that could cause one to take the Mark of the Beast so they could continue buying and selling.

Instead of listening to the Word of God “ANY MAN” in the heat of the moment, one could listen to “MY counsel” and “MY wisdom” of Chris Pinto or the words of John MacArthur, Jimmy DeYoung, or Brannon Howse and take the Mark of the Beast thinking they can repent later.

Eating of the fruit in the Garden and taking the Mark of the Beast both have dire consequences.

Genesis 2:16-17 – “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Revelation 14:9-10 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”

Conclusion

Jesus is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13), His words are spirit (John 6:63). Speaking against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable (Matthew 12:32). Taking away the words “ANY MAN” is taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy (Revelation 22:19).

Matthew 12:31-32 – “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”

Don’t “take away” the words “ANY MAN” from Revelation 14:9 & Revelation 22:19.

Soon, the rubber will be meeting the road to exercise faith in refusing the Mark of the Beast. Complete and utter trust in the Word of God will be required.
The Lord gives us the grace for obedience as we love Him.
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot....carthur-outrage-take-mark-of.html
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot....st-seductive-american-church.html

The counsel of God is easy, straight, and final
Revelation 14:9-10 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
The Lord’s counsel is sufficient. Any man means any man.
Either you believe/trust the Word of God or you don’t.
Plain and simple.
God doesn’t need us mixing His word with “scenario human reasoning” on the Mark of the Beast. That’s where departing from the Word of God and the seduction begins.
Just give the Word of God. The counsel of God.
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot....tans-new-post-mark-salvation.html

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