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CHRISTIANITY * True and False Christian Doctrines

 


Does Water Baptism Save?
Baptism is a symbol of our change

http://carm.org/is-baptism-necessary-salvation

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?
by Matt Slick
One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation.
The answer is a simple, No, water baptism is not necessary for salvation.

What about verses like
...baptism that now saves you.. 1 Pet. 3:21 and ...
Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins... Acts 2:38

THE REASON baptism is NOT  necessary for salvation is because we are justified by faith.  Romans 5:1; Eph. 2:8
not by faith and a ceremony  Rom. 4:1-11

A religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone.  
Circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person.  
Likewise, baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person.  
But, we are saved by faith alone and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe, not when we get baptized, otherwise we are not saved by faith.  
Furthermore, if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized before he died.
This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved.  
Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized.
Remember, when someone says that baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions, otherwise it isn't necessary.

Now, in order to more thoroughly look at this issue, I need to lay a foundation of proper theology,
and then I'll address some of those verses that are commonly used to support the idea that baptism is necessary for salvation.


God Works Covenantally

First, you need to understand that God works covenantally.   A covenant is a pact or agreement between two or more parties.
The New Testament and Old Testament are New and Old Covenants.
The word testament comes from the Latin testamentum which means covenant.  
So, the Bible is a covenant document.  If you do not understand covenant you cannot understand, in totality, the issue of baptism because baptism is a covenant sign.

If you do not think that God works covenantally then look at Hebrews 13:20 which says,
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant
The Eternal Covenant is the covenant between the Father and the Son before the creation of the world, whereby the Father would give to the Son those whom the Father had chosen.
That is why Jesus says things like, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away," (John 6:37).  
And, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day," (John 6:39).  
And, "I pray for them.  I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours," (John 17:9).

If you fail to understand that God works covenantally and that He uses signs as manifestations of his covenants (rainbow, circumcision, communion, etc.)
then you will not be able to understand where baptism fits in God's covenant system.

Second, you need to know what baptism is.  It is a ceremony that represents an outward representation of an inward reality.  
For example, it represents the reality of the inward washing of Christ's blood upon the soul.  That is why it is used in different ways.  
It is said to represent the death of the person (Rom. 6:3-5), the union of that person with Christ (Gal. 3:27), the cleansing of that person's sins (Acts 22:16),
the identification with the one "baptized into" as when the Israelites were baptized into Moses (1 Cor. 10:2), and being united in one church (1 Cor. 12:13).
Also, baptism is one of the signs and seals of the Covenant of Grace that was instituted by Jesus.

The Covenant of Grace is the covenant between God and Mankind where God promises to Mankind eternal life.  
It is based upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the condition is faith in Jesus Christ.  
As the Communion Supper replaced Passover, baptism, in like manner, replaces circumcision.  
"They represent the same spiritual blessings that were symbolized by circumcision and Passover in the old dispensation" (Berkhoff, Lewis, Systematic Theology, 1988, p. 620).  
Circumcision was the initiatory rite into the Abrahamic covenant; it did not save.  
A covenant is a pact or agreement between two or more parties and that is exactly what the Abrahamic covenant was.  
God said to Abraham, "I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you
for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you," (Genesis 17:7).  
God later instructed Abraham to circumcise not only every adult male, but also eight day old male infants as a sign of the covenant (Gen. 17:9-13).  
If the children were not circumcised, they were not considered to be under the promissory Abrahamic covenant.  
This is why Moses' wife circumcised her son and threw the foreskin at Moses' feet (Ex. 4:24-25).  
She knew the importance of the covenant between God and her children.  
But at the same time we must understand that circumcision did not guarantee salvation to all who received it.  
It was a rite meant only for the people of God, who were born into the family of God (who were then the Jews).

An important question here is how is it possible for an infant to be entered into a covenant with God.  
There could be a lot of different answers given but the point remains:
it was done; infants were entered into a covenant relationship with God through their parents.

In the New Testament, circumcision is mentioned many times.  But with respect to this topic it is specifically mentioned in Col. 2:11-12:
"In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,
having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
In these verses, baptism and circumcision are related.  Baptism replaces the Old Testament circumcision because
1) there was a New Covenant in the communion supper (Luke 22:20), and
2) in circumcision there was the shedding of blood, but in baptism no blood is shed.  
This is because the blood of Christ has been shed and circcumcision,
which ultimately represented the shed blood of Christ in his covenant work of redemption, was a foreshadowing of Christ's work.

If you understand that baptism is a covenant sign, then you can see that it is a representation of the reality of Christ circumcising our hearts (Rom. 2:29; Col. 2:11-12).
It is our outward proclamation of the inward spiritual blessing of regeneration.
It comes after faith which is a gift of God (Rom. 12:3) and the work of God (John 6:28 ).

Third, the Bible says that it is the gospel that saves.  "By this gospel you are saved..." (1 Cor. 15:2).  
Also, Rom. 1:16 says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."  
Neither of these verses, which tell us what saves us, includes any mention of baptism.
.
CJ

What is the Gospel?

It is clearly the gospel that saves us, but what exactly is the gospel?  That too is revealed to us in the Bible.  
It is found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you.  Otherwise, you have believed in vain.  
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures."  
The gospel is defined as the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins.  Baptism is not mentioned here.

Paul said that he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize:
"I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.  
(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)  
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..."
(1 Cor. 1:14-17).  If baptism is necessary for salvation, then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation?
It is because baptism is not necessary for salvation.

Additionally, in Acts, Peter was preaching the gospel, people got saved, and then they were baptized.
Acts 10:44-48 says, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.  
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.  
For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.  Then Peter said, ‘Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?  
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.'  So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."  These people were saved.  
The gift of the Holy Spirit was on the Gentiles and they were speaking in tongues.  This is significant because tongues is a gift given to believers (see 1 Cor. 14:1-5).
Also, unbelievers do not praise God.  They cannot because praise to the true God is a deep spiritual matter that is foreign to the unsaved (1 Cor. 2:14).
Therefore, the ones in Acts 10 who are speaking in tongues and praising God are definitely saved, and they are saved before they are baptized.  
This simply is not an exception.  It is a reality.

Let's Suppose...

Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration.  
Let's suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:Cool, believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13),
and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior.  Is that person saved?  Of course he is.  
Let's further suppose that this person confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord,
and receives Jesus as Savior and then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church.  
In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed.  Does he go to heaven or hell?
If he goes to heaven then baptism is not necessary for salvation.  If he goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, is not enough for salvation.  
Doesn't that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)?

Saying that baptism is necessary for salvation is dangerous because it is saying that there is something we must do to complete salvation.
That is wrong!  See Gal. 2:21; 5:4.

All right, so this sounds reasonable.  But still, what about those verses that seem to say that baptism is part of salvation?  
I will address those now, but because this subject can become quite lengthy, in fact sufficient for a book in itself, I will only address a few verses and then only briefly.
.
CJ

Baptism Verses

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'"

Some say that water here means baptism, but that is unlikely since Christian baptism hadn't yet been instituted.  
If this verse did mean baptism, then the only kind that it could have been at that point was the baptism of repentance administered by John the Baptist (Mark 1:4).  
If that is so, then baptism is not necessary for salvation because the baptism of repentance is no longer practiced.

It is my opinion that the water spoken of here means the water of the womb referring to the natural birth process.  Jesus said in verse three that Nicodemus needed to be born "again."  This meant that he had been born once -- through his mother's womb.  Nicodemus responds with a statement about how he cannot enter again into his mother's womb to be born.  Then Jesus says that he must be born of water and the Spirit.  Then in verse 6 He says that "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."  The context seems to be discussing the contrast between the natural and the spiritual birth.  Water, therefore, could easily be interpreted there to mean the natural birth process.

I would like to add that there are scholars who agree with the position and some who do not.  Some believe that the water refers to the Word of God, the Bible, and others claim it means the Holy Spirit.  You decide for yourself.

Acts 2:38, Peter replied,
Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.  And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse is often used to say that baptism is part of salvation, but we know from other scriptures that it is not, lest there be a contradiction.
What is going on here is simply that repentance and forgiveness of sins are connected.  In the Greek, "repent" is in the plural and so is "your" of "your sins."  
They are meant to be understood as being related to each other.  It is like saying, "All of you repent, each of you get baptized, and all of you will receive forgiveness."  Repentance is a mark of salvation because it is granted by God (2 Tim. 2:25) and is given to believers only.
In this context, only the regenerated, repentant person is to be baptized.  
Baptism is the manifestation of the repentance, that gift from God, that is the sign of the circumcised heart.  
That is why it says, "repent and be baptized."

Also, please notice that there is no mention of faith in Acts 2:38.  If this verse is a description of what is necessary for salvation, then why is faith not mentioned?
Simply saying it is implied isn't good enough.  Peter is not teaching a formula for salvation, but for covenant obedience,
which is why the next verse says that the promise is for their children as well.

1 Pet. 3:21, "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also -- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God.
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

This is the only verse that says that baptism saves, but the NIV translation of the verse is unfortunate.  
A better translation is found in the NASB which says, "and corresponding to that, baptism now saves you."  
The key word in this section is the Greek antitupon.  It means "copy," "type," "corresponding to," "a thing resembling another," "its counterpart," etc.  
Baptism is a representation, a copy, a type of something else.  The question is "Of what is it a type?" or "Baptism corresponds to what?"  
The answer is found in the previous verse,
verse 20: "who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark,
in which a few, that is, 8 persons, were brought safely through the water.
21And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you," (NASB).

Some think that the baptism corresponds to the Ark because it was the Ark that saved them, not the floodwaters.  
This is a possibility, but one of the problems is that this interpretation does not seem to stand grammatically
since the antecedent of Baptism is most probably in reference to the water, not the Ark.

But, water did not save Noah.  This is why Peter excludes the issue of water baptism being the thing that saves us because he says,
"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God."  
Peter says that it is not the application of water that saves us but a pledge of the good conscience.  
Therefore, baptism here most probably represents the breaking away of the old sinful life and entrance into the new life with Christ
in the same way that the flood waters in Noah's time was the destruction of the sinful way and, once through it, known as entering into the new way.
Also, Peter says that the baptism is an appeal of a good conscience before God.  Notice that this is dealing with faith.  
It seems that Peter is defining real baptism as the act of faith.

Acts 22:16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."

Is the washing away of sins done by baptism, the representation of the circumcised heart (Col. 2:11-12)
which means you are already saved, or is it by the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:14; Rom. 5:9; Eph. 1:7)?  
Obviously it is the blood of Jesus and the washing here refers to the calling on Jesus' name.

Rom. 6:4, "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that,
just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

Because the believer is so closely united to Christ it is said that the symbol of baptism is our death, burial, and resurrection.  
Obviously we did not die -- unless, of course, it is a figurative usage.  And that is what it is here.  
The figure of baptism represents the reality of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.  It is a covenant sign for us.
Remember, a covenant sign represents the covenant.  
The covenant sign of baptism represents the covenant of grace which is that covenant between God and the Christian
where we receive the grace of God through the person of Christ by means of his sacrifice.



Titus 3:5, "he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.  
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit."

The washing of rebirth can only be that washing of the blood of Christ that cleanses us.  
It is not the symbol that saves, but the reality.  The reality is the blood of Christ.

Gal. 3:27, "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."

This is speaking of the believer's union with Christ.  It is an identification with, a joining to, a proclamation of loyalty to, etc.  
In 1 Cor. 10:2 the Israelites were baptized into Moses.  That means they were closely identified with him and his purpose.  The same thing is meant here.

Conclusion

Baptism is not necessary for salvation.  It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace.  
As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6;  Jer. 4:4; 9:25,26; Ezk.44:7,9)
baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12).  
The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ?  
If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved.  
If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?
http://carm.org/is-baptism-necessary-salvation

.
CJ

* I changed the title of this thread January 2017
I am adding from several threads where was a single post


Does Water Baptism Save?
A Biblical Refutation of Baptismal Regeneration


1. The Bible teaches that to be saved a person must BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
2. The Bible teaches throughout the New Testament that FAITH and FAITH ALONE is necessary for salvation.

3. EPHESIANS 2:8-9 is a passage which God has given to answer this key question: HOW IS A PERSON SAVED?
This important doctrinal verse says nothing about water baptism.

4. Water baptism is a WORK (something that man does to please God), and yet the Bible teaches again and again that a person is not saved by works.

5. When is a person saved?
Is a person saved at the moment he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ or is a person saved the moment he is baptized in water?
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/baptsave.htm


Circumcision  -  It's relevance to the Christian
http://www.eagles-lair.org/pdfs/eagles/circum.pdf


IS HELL REAL?  Are we Saved merely by Believing
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about247.html


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NEWS and analysis you can TRUST
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CJ

Does Baptism Save?
By K. B. Napier

The simple answer is, no it does not. The claim, that baptism saves, is Romanist in theology and Arminian in thought,
a thought that should not even cross the minds of genuine believers.
(For an argument against the Roman position on this, see criticism of the theology of Thomas Aquinas).

Paul told his hearers that John came with the baptism of repentance.
This baptism did not save, but was an act prior to the repentance given by God to salvation.
For example, in Acts 19:3-7, we are told that “John verily baptised with the baptism of repentance,
saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

Very clearly, this shows us that John’s baptism did not save, but pointed the people toward the Messiah and His salvation.
Those who were baptised by John were brought to a realisation of their sin, but they then had to “believe on him which should come after him”.
If Jesus came ‘after’ John, then those who repented before He came could not have received His salvation at that time.
Therefore, salvation did not come through John’s baptism.

Those who had been baptised by John, later “were baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus.” The two baptisms are very different.
But, does the later baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ, bring salvation? No, it does not.

Christians are baptised “into His death” (Jesus Christ, e.g. Romans 6:3,4), the baptism denoting our new life,
made alive from a state of death, caused by sin. Baptism is said only to be a symbol of this new life, and is not the creator of new life;
it highlights a new life that has already been given. Thus, it does not save, but merely reflects a life already saved.

You will note that our ‘old man’ (sin) is “crucified with him” (verse 6). It is logical, that before we are dead we are crucified.
One comes before the other. Therefore, the action that leads to new life comes before death (symbolised by baptism)!
Our death to sin is the very point at which we come alive to Christ (salvation).
One is not buried until he is dead, so we can deduce that as crucifixion brings new life,
and baptism comes after crucifixion, we are already spiritually alive when we are baptised.

This new life is not created by us, or by our own actions, not even baptism, for new life is only given through and by Jesus Christ and His crucifixion.
He passes on to those who are elect the benefits of His personal crucifixion and resurrection.
Indeed, the symbol of baptism must also, because of this, include resurrection, for, as Paul says,
Christ’s death without His resurrection, is pointless, making our faith vain.

This fact is found to be true in Colossians 2:12 where we read that we are “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with (him)”
Does this mean we are thereby saved by baptism. No, it does not, as we find in 1 Peter 3:21.
Curiously, this very same text is used as a proof text by those who claim baptism saves!

What does this text actually tell us? Does it say we are saved from death unto life by baptism?
The person who says it does, displays a distinct lack of understanding, about true interpretation,
about scripture, about salvation, and about Bible theology.
In fact, the person who says it does is being heretical.

Let us look at the text in its context:

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The like figure whereunto (even) baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

The word for baptism in this text is baptisma. It can have a variety of meanings, including John’s baptism,
calamities that overwhelm us, and the Christian rite of baptism, by which we confess our sins and faith in Christ Jesus.
We cannot make such a confession unless we already have such faith, and faith is given as a gift to all who believe.
That is, all who are already saved!

Baptisma is rooted in baptizo, which can mean to immerse in order to change it (anything, including pickles in vinegar!),
to overwhelm, to submerge (as a ship under water). It is not the same as bapto (e.g. dipping and superficial, such as dipping cloth into a dye,
which changes the colour only and not the substance or nature of the cloth).

Baptizo means to dip once to clean and then a second time to effect a permanent change.
Christian baptism is supposed to reflect permanent change and union with Christ (not just intellectual assent), it does not bring it about.
Baptisma, not baptizo!

Baptism is a “like figure” of the saving of the ark. A ‘like figure’ is similar to something, antitupos, and points toward it,
but is not itself the thing it points toward. Thus, It is similar but not ‘the same’.
The word for ‘saved’ in verse 20 is different from the word used in verse 21.
In verse 20 it is diasozo, meaning to stop someone from perishing/to save from danger/to rescue.
Noah was, then, saved from drowning – the word does not mean eternal salvation.

So, if our baptism is a ‘like figure’, it is not going to save us eternally, but it saves us from entering into mortal danger,
e.g. continuing sin, by causing us to think and stop.
Our baptism is sozo – it keeps us safe and sound by rescuing us from danger, restoring us to a full and secure life.
How do we know that I am right? Well, the word, in context, tells us so…
but this is reinforced by the qualifying remark itself, which says that baptism does not mean
“the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God”!

Baptism, then, does not save us eternally, but only shows others (and our own conscience) that we are already new creatures.
In baptism we pin our colours to the mast and declare that we are saved eternally and wish to show it in the rite of being immersed.

“putting away” is apothesis, which means putting off or discarding, in this case, sin.
Scripture tells us that this is done by God, not by any act we perform.
We put away rhupos – filth (sin)…but this is brought about by Christ, not by us.
We cast off sarx – natural actions of the flesh, that is our nature as sinful men.
The text tells us that baptism does NOT cause us to cast aside sin or to escape our natural carnal, fleshly desires!

Rather, baptism is “the answer of a good conscience” toward God.
That is, eperotema – an earnest seeking to do what is right according to conscience – suneidesis,
the activity of the soul distinguishing good and evil.
This is brought into being by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NOT by our baptism!
That is what the text actually tells us, so how can anyone argue against it?

Let me repeat – baptism is a symbol of our change, wrought by being made new creatures, and effected before we are baptised.
To insist otherwise, and to say that baptism is what saves us, or is part of salvation, is to lack proper understanding of salvation.
The formulation is Arminian and Romanist, not spiritual, and denies the truth of God’s word.
http://www.christiandoctrine.net/...e_00139_does_baptism_save_web.htm

.
CJ

Churchianity or Christianity?

What is Churchianity?  
Of course you will not find the word Churchianity in the dictionary, so why use the word and what does it mean?  
I use the word churchianity because it is a good, descriptive word for the sometimes subtle, yet altogether dangerous shift of focus that frequently occurs in the Christian religion.  
It is not a word of my own making, but one that I have heard used many times to describe misguided professors of Christianity.  

Churchianity is a perversion of Christianity;
it means that the focus of the religion [what is supposed to be Christianity] has shifted from Christ to the church.  
Instead of total reliance upon Christ for salvation, sanctification, Christian growth, and spiritual nourishment,
adherents of Churchianity rely on the church to an equal or even greater extent for these things.

The central difference between Churchianity and Christianity is that Christ is at the center of Christianity, while the church is at the center or Churchianity.  
Of course those who practice “Churchianity” still consider themselves Christians and probably would deny that the word Churchianity describes their religion;
yet, when all of the facts are considered, their religion bears greater resemblance to Churchianity than Christianity because of the undue focus given to the church in their religious devotion.

So, in theory these professed Christians claim loyalty to Christ, but in practice they are actually loyal to their church.  
For, when it comes to loyalty in actual practice, “churchians” would rather depart from Christ, Himself, [they would rather depart from the truth of His Word, His teachings, and His doctrine] than forsake their church.
Sadly, their church is at the center of their  religious devotion; it has stolen their hearts; to it they have pledged their undying allegiance.
In Churchianity, we find the church elevated to a position far above even that of their professed Savior.

Churchianity: Who founded it?
The origin of Churchianity, unfortunately, goes all the way back to the time of the early church.  
Although the earliest church, founded by Jesus and built upon by the apostles, was based upon the precepts of the New Testament,
it was not long before changes were instituted which elevated the church to a position far above that which Christ gave it.  

One of the major factors which influenced this change was the institution of infant baptism  (J.M. Carrol, The Trail of Blood, First period AD 300-500).
Infant baptism made it possible for the church to create Christians at will.
When an infant was baptized, he/she was declared a Christian and a member of the church.  
In doing this, the church usurped the authority and the role of Jesus Christ in the conversion of sinners and effectively made itself the bearer of salvation.  
This, of course, is still practiced in many churches today (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc).

VATICANISM is SATANISM, NOT CHRISTIANITY!

The Roman Catholic Church is a prime example of the practice of Churchianity over Christianity, for in the Roman Catholic Religion, salvation is found within the church, rather than simply within Christ.
The Roman Catholic Catechism explicitly states their position on the subject of salvation though the church:  
To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church.
The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation.
The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world  
According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood” (Roman Catholic Catechism, paragraph number 845).

In the Eastern Orthodox Church (an offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church) the role of the church has been so totally perverted that a certain member I spoke with actually stated, and I quote,
“Christ did not leave us here alone. He gave us the church as Christ gave it to his apostles.
That theology has not deviated in nearly 2000 years. If another "faith" could show me that it was more valid, believe me, I would not be Orthodox.
But Orthodoxy is Christ's body. That's why we say it the one true faith. It has to be, because it IS Christ”  (emphasis added).
This is the tragic result of Churchianity: The church, in the end, actually replaces Jesus Christ.  

Churchianity and Me (For Gospel Truth Administrator):
Based on my current stand against the church-centered religion of Churchianity, rather than the Christ-centered religion of Christianity,
some might be tempted to believe that I am one of those people who simply does not like church.
Yet nothing could be further from the truth.  The reality is, I love church.  I loved church even before I was saved.  
When I was a teenager, my parents had to actually ban me from spending so much time at the church  (I was there Sunday mornings, Sunday evenings,
Saturday mornings for a children’s “bus ministry,” Wednesday nights for youth group, and Thursday nights for a youth Bible study).  
I practically lived at the church; it felt like my true home, and I had a real show down with my parents when they banned me from attending so much.  

As an adult, things were pretty much the same.  I attended Sunday mornings  (both Sunday school and the regular service), Sunday nights, Wednesday nights, Thursday evening
(to work in the church “print shop”), and, when I was at a church that offered Saturday and Thursday morning prayer meetings, I went on those mornings as well.  
So you see, on a personal level, I have absolutely nothing against church.  

One thing that does bother me, though, is that I never got saved when I was in any of the churches that I attended, and many people today, whose lives also revolve around the church, are not saved either.
The reason for this is simple:
The CHURCH does not save people!


We are saved through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, which He fully accomplished at Calvary to save lost sinners from their sins.  
This is the faith that most of the professing churches have departed from; many never had it in the first place.  
In most churches the departure from the true faith is so extreme, that you will not even hear their pastors mention the work of Jesus Christ on the cross, even in sermons dedicated to preaching about salvation.
Sometimes these pastors fail to mention Jesus work on the cross even when they are trying to “lead someone to Christ.”  

As we proceed, I will provide ample evidence of this.  
The reality is, a church without the message of the cross is really not a Christian church in any true sense of the word, and religious devotion to a church, simply for the sake of religious devotion, is worthless.
If I had died during any of those years in which I had been whole-heartedly devoted to my church, I would have gone to hell, just like every other lost sinner who dies without salvation.  
Now that I know the truth about salvation, I am trying to warn as many others as I can not to trust in empty religious observances or religious devotion to church,
so that they too can be genuinely saved through the true faith of Jesus Christ.  

Churchianity: Who practices it today?
The obvious examples, which I have already illustrated above (including all denominations that practice infant baptism) are not the focus of this article.
This article will focus on the LEAST likely example of Churchianity:
The church that has held out for nearly 2,000 years against the proponents of infant baptism, against the errors of centralized, hierarchical church government, against the errors of salvation by works etc.  

The church that I speak of is none other than the Baptist Church, and more specifically the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church (IFBC).  
The IFBC (Independent Fundamental Baptist Church) has descended into the realm of Churchianity:

As already stated, this church has stood fast against the afore-mentioned heresies of other denominations that have fallen into the realm of Churchianity rather than Christianity,
so how is it then that the IFB Church is now among the ranks of Churchians who practice Churchianity?  
How did it leave its Christian moorings?  What could have caused its decent into the dark reaches of CHURCH worship?

I believe that the initial stirrings of this bold decent began with the IFB church’s realization that IT was DIFFERENT
than all of the other denominations that practiced man-made religion, rather than the pure New Testament faith.  

A couple of books that have circulated among IFB churches are
1) Jim Carrol’s book, called The Trail of Blood and
2) Roy Mason’s book, called The Church that Jesus Built.  
These two books, while noble in their intent, have done much to cause the IFB Church to glory in its heritage, as the one true, faithful church,
rather than in the cross ALONE

God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.  Galatians 6:14

As soon as the IFB Church left its biblical moorings (where it gloried only in the cross, i,e, the gospel message) and sought glory in its heritage, it began its downward decent into Churchianity.
Throughout the course of this article, I will provide numerous examples of how the IFB has succumbed to Churchianity
and the devastating toll that their newfound religious zeal for the church, itself, has taken on the IFB Church and its gospel message.

My desire, as always, is not to offend, but rather to turn true believers back to the cross, to the one true foundation of the Christian church.  
For others, who were converted to the church rather than to Christ, my prayer is that you will see the difference between that and true salvation.
The church has no power to save, no matter how illustrious its history or how godly its heritage.  
It is vain, indeed, to build your foundation upon the church, as Christ alone, through His sacrifice on the cross, has the power to save.  
http://4gospeltruth.org/churchianityorchristianity.html

IFB Churchianity I:  My Personal Testimony  (Before Salvation)
http://4gospeltruth.org/ifbchurchianitymytestimonybeforesalvation.html

IFB Churchianity 2: My Personal Testimony (After Salvation)
http://4gospeltruth.org/ifbchurch...sonaltestimonyaftersalvation.html

                  ================================

Will some who think they are 'christian' be in hell?  
YES!

http://tinyurl.com/eecinhl

I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:24  

Chrislam heresy
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about2044.html

The New Tolerance, by Josh McDowell
The church and homosexuals
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about1792.html

Churchianity:
an evaluation of little-c christianity and Big-C Christianity
There will be no true Christians in hell.
However there will likely be MANY christians in hell - those who believe any church saves them.
These thoughts are dully supported by scripture.
http://eagles-lair.org/churchianity.html

Signs and wonders - or persecution?
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about2053.html

.
CJ

COVERING DOCTRINE is a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS

In a number of the denominations I've been involved in, including at leadership level, a "doctrine of covering" was taught and accepted.
And for many, many years, I never questioned this teaching. After all, everyone believed it; the leadership upheld it, so it must be right, right?
It is only as the Holy Spirit has impressed me to study the scriptures more deeply on this teaching that I've had to come to terms with the fact that
He NEVER originated it! In His infinite grace, He chose to wait patiently for a time when the Spirit of Truth would become dearer to me than the traditions of men.

The teaching on "covering" goes like this. Everyone needs to be accountable to someone who is spiritually his or her superior.
This someone may be your cell group leader, the head of a church department or your senior pastor etc.
In turn, these leaders receive covering from someone further up the line, for instance a denominational leader or a "recognised" apostle.
The necessity for this covering is based on the belief that believers need to be safeguarded from falling into error and/or sin.
So covering is provided by those who are more spiritual than we to protect us from such error.
At the top of this pyramid of covering there is quite often a well-known and recognised "name"
but the chances of meeting or having any kind of relationship with that person if you are at the bottom of the pyramid are fairly slim.
Currently, there are several networks offering this kind of covering to those in some form of church leadership or ministry, more often than not for an annual fee.
The annual fee usually provides for the running of the network, and conferences where you can fellowship with others under your particular brand of covering.
You may also be denied entrance from one of these networks because you don't have the appropriate credentials.

One of the strange things about this "covering" teaching is that rarely is anyone asked about their spiritual covering, until they step outside their particular church, denomination or network.
However, the minute a believer shows signs of having something important to share with the wider Body of Christ, suddenly all and sundry are interested primarily in that one important question: "Who are you covered by?"
It all sounds pretty reasonable except for one problem - it's NOT FOUND in scripture.
In fact, the early church was taught to rely on the inner anointing to discern the spiritual source of potential ministers. (1 John 2:20; 1 John 4:1)

So, where did this idea originate that believers need to be "covered" in order to serve God and minister within Christ's Body?
Are you, like many others, living your Christian life under the shadow of this fear that without "covering" you dare not minister, preach, pray
or do a myriad of other things you're called to do by the Spirit of God, because you will somehow be ministering without protection?

The purpose of this article is to shed some light on this issue based on scriptural truth.
To begin with, though, we need to understand that this need to be covered by a perceived spiritual authority,
and the scriptural instruction to submit ourselves to God's delegated authorities, are NOT necessarily one and the same thing.
Furthermore, New Testament authority as demonstrated by Jesus and the first apostles,
is servanthood-authority, upholding, strengthening, reinforcing and overseeing the Body from BENEATH,
not DOMINEERING, CONTROLLING and RULING from ABOVE.
Therefore, it is vital in examining this issue that we begin from a correct understanding of Biblical submission and Biblical authority.

'LET THIS MIND be IN YOU'

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought in not robbery to be equal with God;
but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and
being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."  Phil. 2:5-8

The current mindset we carry in much of the church concerning submission is quite unrelated to the submission taught and demonstrated by Jesus and the early apostles.
There is a desperate need to return to the same mind that was in Christ Jesus.
The scripture tells us that though He was equal with the Father, Jesus CHOSE to submit Himself, He CHOSE to humble Himself, He CHOSE to obey.
This is the key to Biblical submission, and the model laid down for us by both the Father and the Son.

Submission is firstly a choice; a choice that can only ever be made by the giver. Biblical submission can never be demanded or forced.
That kind of relationship is subservience, not submission. Jesus chose to subject Himself to the Father, but the Father "so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son."
Sacrificial giving and sacrificial submission are married to each other. In the Spirit, you cannot have one without the other.
If you try, you will invariably end up with control, dependence and abuse rather than humility, interdependence and grace.

The New Testament concept of submission, or subjection, is one of a totally voluntary attitude of giving, of yielding one's preference and deferring to another.
In this way, Jesus as a child was subject to His parents, yet the scriptures record that He did not even consult them when He was "about His Father's business."  Luke 2:49,51

"IT SHALL NOT be SO AMONG YOU"

"Obey your spiritual leaders and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God.
Give them reason to do this joyfully and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit." (Hebrews 13:17, NLT)

"But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all."  Mark 10:42-44

"Jesus got them together to settle things down.
"You've observed how godless rulers throw their weight around," he said, "and when people get a little power how quickly it goes to their heads." (Mark 10:42 The Message)

There is no question that the scriptures instruct each one of us to submit to God's delegated authority. It is the understanding and the application of that authority we often stumble over.
The Bible records that Jesus taught the twelve this Kingdom authority as they walked along the road to Jerusalem.
His face had been set toward the Cross, and it is certain He was keenly aware of the short time He had left with them.
Perhaps He was conversing with His Father about what were the most important lessons He could impart to them during the time that was left.
We know that He heard them disputing over who among them was the best "leadership material".
Perhaps Peter, having not long before witnessed Jesus' transfiguration, thought that gave him special status.
Perhaps James and John felt they were more likely candidates for rulership than impetuous Peter.
Shortly before, they had asked Jesus to give them special places of honour in His Kingdom. Whatever had started their dispute, Jesus certainly knew how to end it!

"Whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave....."  (Matt. 20:27).

The Lord was speaking to a group of people who had grown up under the rule of the Roman Empire.
The Romans exercised their authority through forced subjection and harsh cruelty.
In fact, the literal translation of the words Jesus used in reference to Roman rule mean "to be under the power of" and "to be subdued."
Despite having witnessed Jesus using a very different kind of authority and power, the disciples had not yet understood exactly what He would require of them.
The Romans were, in the political sense, their masters.
Yet here was Jesus stating that to exercise the authority He was going to invest in them they would need to become slaves to one another, and not masters.
One might safely assume these weren't words any of them particularly wanted to hear that day!

Kingdom authority has nothing to do with titles, positions, educational qualifications or reputation.
Kingdom authority is granted by the Lord according to the measure with which He can trust us to wield it with humility.
The greatest authority in the kingdom is reserved for His bondslaves.

WHAT about ACCOUNTABILITY?

In today's church system we have confused the word "covering" with the need for accountability. Consequently many are holding themselves accountable to people with title and position, regardless of whether or not they are developing an ongoing transparent relationship with that person. In the Kingdom, it is notpossible to be truly accountable to those with whom we are not actively growing in relationship. How can I be trusted to call you to account righteously if I don't love you in Christ? How can you love me with Christ-like love and not call me to account?

Paul was able to correct the Corinthians because he had true relationship with them. He had travailed over them, nurtured them, wept for them and rejoiced with them. Therefore he was able to reprove them, for their edification and not for their destruction.  (2 Corinthians 13:10)

When we turn to the scriptures for guidance on this issue of accountability, a startling fact confronts us. The News Testament mentions accountability ONLY in terms of the believer towards God. The scripture teaches that we will give accountability TO GOD ALONE in the following areas:

* stewardship (Luke 16:2)
* ourselves (Rom. 14:12)
* fruit (Phil 4:17)
* what we do in the flesh (1 Pet. 4:5)
* leaders shall give account for the souls they watch over (Heb. 13:17)

What then, DO the scriptures teach about how believers, as members of the corporate Body of Christ, are to relate to one another?

"... all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." (1 Peter 5:5)

In Galatians Chapter Two we read of a journey Paul took to Jerusalem. He states that he went up "by revelation", that is,
at the instigation of the Holy Spirit, in order to confirm that the gospel he had been preaching was approved by the eldership of the Jerusalem church.
He goes on to state that "those who seemed to be something, whatever they were, it makes no difference to me," had nothing to add to his teachings.
He further adds that when James, Cephas (Peter) and John perceived the grace God had shown him, he was given the "right hand of fellowship."

At the instigation of the Holy Spirit, Paul had subjected himself to the Jerusalem eldership, including Peter, for the purpose of accountability.
One may safely assume that Peter, having spent around three years day and night with Jesus, and highly regarded by the early believers, held very great authority in the church.
Paul, however did not ask Peter to cover him. Instead, he did not hesitate in calling Peter to account when Peter was later swayed to go back on his word by the fear of men (Gal. 2:11-14).
Bear in mind this is the same Peter who stated "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)

These men understood the nature of relationship through the Holy Spirit; ALL of you be submissive to one another, ALL of you be clothed with humility.
Each of us is accountable to one another, whatever our function in the Body, whether apostles, teachers, deacons or helpers. This is the church Christ is building.

To say that we are demonstrating accountability to a person or group of people we may briefly rub shoulders with at a meeting once or twice a week, or perhaps once or twice a year, is ludicrous.
True accountability is about how we express Christ in us - our lifestyle, our character and our integrity in families, jobs and church community.
This cannot be measured outside Godly relationships, and without a humble willingness to be in subjection one to another.
Each one of us needs to seek out and submit ourselves to those in the Body the Lord has placed close to us to provide that accountability, regardless of their position, title or function.
Each one of us needs to be willing, in humility and service, to provide that same accountability base for others in the Body.
This applies to leadership equally as it does to the newest, most inexperienced member of the Christian community.

Sadly, what we see today in so much of the church, is a frenzied jockeying for position under the supposedly protective umbrella of some
ministry name or reputation, in order to prove ourselves "covered".
"WHO COVERS YOU?" has become one of the most frequently asked questions among Christians, and too often it is the deciding factor in assessing a ministry's integrity or otherwise.
Consequently, an unsatisfactory answer to that question in some church circles can label you "outside the camp" and almost certainly not to be trusted.
Christians are judging each other's worth and relationship with God on this issue of covering, and using it to justify self-righteousness and spiritual elitism.

In Part Two of this study we will talk about what is at the root of
this distorted doctrine, and the clear choices that lie before us in order to be free from it.

Part TWO

".....then the LORD will create above every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night.
For over all the glory there will be a covering." Isaiah 4:5

"He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler." Ps. 91:4

IT'S about HIS NAME

"Now it happened on one of those days, as He taught the people in the temple and preached the gospel, that the chief priests and the scribes, together with the elders,
confronted Him and spoke to Him, saying, "Tell us, by what authority are You doing these things? Or who is he who gave You this authority?" (Luke 20:1-2)

As we see from this portion of scripture, the question "who covers you?" is not new.
The chief priests, scribes and elders were not simply asking Jesus where His supernatural power came from.
More than that, they wanted a NAME. "Who is he?' Come on, tell us Jesus, who is the scribe, who is the rabbi, who is the prophet who covers you?
And no more of that over-spiritualised talk about your Father. We want the name of the person who said you could do these things!"

The apostle Paul confronted a similar problem in the Corinthian church.

"For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by
those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you.
Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." Is Christ divided?
Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptised in the  name of Paul?" (1 Cor. 1:10-13)

The Lord is jealous over us concerning His Name. We were bought and paid for by His Blood, and His Name is the only Name by which we are to identify ourselves.
When believers choose to find their identity in another name other than His, the Spirit is grieved and His Name is dishonoured.

IT'S ABOUT the FLESH

"Don't ever let anyone call you `Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters.
And don't address anyonehere on earth as `Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. And don't let anyone call you `Master,' for there is only one master, the Messiah.
The greatest among you must be a servant." (Matthew 23:8-11, NLT)

The Corinthians were apparently separating into factions according to whom they considered was the most authoritative teacher.
They were following after men, and for that reason Paul took issue with them.
Further in his letter he goes on to challenge them by describing this kind of mindset as carnal and fleshly rather than spiritual:

"For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not CARNAL?"  1 Cor. 3:1-4

Finally, he instructs them:
"Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours:
whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come-all are yours. And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's." (1 Cor. 3:21-23)

The Corinthians had become so obsessed with the attributes of certain teachers they were idolising them.
They wanted to regard particular individuals as their "master", "father", or "teacher", but Paul wanted them to understand that in doing so they were falling short of their full inheritance in Christ.
He wanted them to see that all of these teachers, belonged to them as servant-ministers, and not the other way around.

IT'S ABOUT a SUBSTITUTE KING

At the heart of the Corinthians' idolatry was the age-old desire for a ruler, a king. The flesh would much rather fear man than fear God.
The flesh would much rather submit to the control of law than submit to the freedom of the Spirit. This principle is seen throughout scripture.

Afraid they would die, the Israelites begged Moses to be God's messenger to them, rather than hear His Voice for themselves.

"Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off.
Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die." ( Exodus 20:18-19)

God desired for the people to hear Him for themselves, but they refused. Effectively, the Israelites were elevating Moses as their mediator.
The entire nation had been called as a kingdom of priests, but their preference was to be ruled by one man. (Exodus 19:1-9)

Many years later, when the prophet Samuel officiated as Israel's judge, Israel's carnal desire for a man-king surfaced again.

"Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah, and said to him, "Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways.
Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations." But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." So Samuel prayed to the Lord.

And the Lord said to Samuel,
"Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them...
However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behaviour of the king who will reign over them."
So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who asked him for a king. And he said,
"This will be the behaviour of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots...
And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.
He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants. And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you in that day."
Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "No, but we will have a king over us..."  1 Samuel 8:4-22

The key to Israel's demand for a human king, rather than the direct reign of Yahweh over them, was "that we also may be like all the nations, and that
our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles." They wanted a name and a face that could "go out before" them.
They wanted someone visible they could show the other nations. They wanted a symbol, a token leader who could take responsibility for how they would live and conduct their lives.
They wanted someone with a reputation they could identify with. They wanted to be like the world. They wanted human "covering."

You see, friends, there is a place for governmental leadership, there is a place for accountability within the Body, there is a place for submission to legitimate God-delegated authority.
All these are valid and in order, but only insofar as they are not permitted to substitute for the direct rule of God in our lives.
And only insofar as they are not sought out as a counterfeit for the sovereignty and rulership of the Holy Spirit within each believer.

IT'S OF a DIFFERENT SPIRIT

"You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." (Ezekiel 28:14)

Many Bible scholars agree that God's rebuke to the "king of Tyre" recorded in Ezekiel 28:1-19 is prophetically addressed to Satan.
In it, we find that originally this fallen angel was called the "anointed cherub who covers". Some scholars believe he was especially anointed to cover the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies.
In the Presence of God, he walked back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones.
The passage states that when iniquity was found in him he was cast out of God's holy mountain, and removed from the midst of the fiery stones.

This Hebrew word "to cover" means "to hedge, fence about, shut in, block, overshadow, screen, stop the approach, shut off, cover" (H. "cakak" Strongs 05526 ).
It is a word than can be used either in relation to defence or oppression.

Beloved, Satan still desires to walk back and forth in the midst of God's living, fiery stones. He still desires to be the covering cherub on God's holy mountain,
but the covering he offers is oppressive, designed purely to hinder believers and rob them of the freedom and full potential that is ours through Christ.

The doctrine of covering is an old lie with a new name. It is fundamental to the maintenance of a false hierarchical religious system controlling many Christians in this day.
Without the power of this erroneous mindset, it is even doubtful that some sections of the "church" could survive.

"Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
There is one body and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope when you were called - one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is OVER ALL and THROUGH ALL and IN ALL. (Ephesians 4:3-6)
The scriptures plainly state that it is God alone who is OVER all. Only God can cover His people, and only the Holy Spirit can unite them.

The most disturbing aspect about the covering teaching is that it subtly encourages believers to look to men and women
rather than develop their own deep relationship with God through the Holy Spirit
.
It upholds a man-made church built on hierarchy rather than a spiritual temple built through the unity of the Spirit.
It promotes a class system of rulership by title, human appointment and personality, and DEVALUES the PRIESTHOOD of every believer.
It negates leadership by the Holy Spirit and discourages believers from hearing the direction of the Spirit for themselves.
It is a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS being used to deceive and bind countless believers.   1 Timothy 4


Now, about that freedom we were talking about at the beginning of this article!
Don't, repeat DON'T, use your newfound liberty as a licence for rebellion against authority.
If you have been trapped in this covering doctrine be wise in how you appropriate your freedom.
There are many, many humble and faithful men and women overseeing and serving the Body of Christ with humility and devotion,
and it may well be that whoever has been "covering" you is one of them.
If you are blessed enough to be aligned with a servant-leader who demonstrates true Biblical authority, honour them, support them, and submit to them.
But don't expect them to cover you - that's not theirs to give.

False doctrines are mindsets and beliefs that can only be cast down by the Spirit and the Word together.
And ultimately, our walk in the Spirit is not the responsibility of leadership; it is our own responsibility.
It is time for each one of us to choose - do we want the rulership of kings, or do we want the rulership of THE King?

Finally, let me leave you with these thoughts:

1) Who covered Philip when He went down to Samaria and started a revival? (The apostles heard about it and sent Peter and John down to check it out!) (Acts 8:4-Cool

2) Who covered Philip when the angel of the Lord directed him to the Gaza desert? (Acts 8:26-40) (There's no record of the Ethiopian eunuch asking him for his "covering" credentials!)

3)Who covered Ananias when he was sent to pray for Saul? (He went to pray for aknown enemy of the church and didn't event get permission!) (Acts 9:10-1Cool

4)Who covered Apollos when he taught boldly in the synagogue, even though he had not yet received the full gospel? (Acts 18:24-25)

5)And who covered Aquilla and Priscilla when they took Apollos under their wing to instruct him further? (Acts 18:26)
6)Who covered Agabus when he travelled down from Judea to deliver a prophetic word to Paul? (Acts 21:10)

The answer is the same in each instance: The Holy Spirit covered, protected, led, and enabled. He is the only covering we need. The real question is this: is He the only covering we want?
http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com
Source-    www.greatsouthland.org

.
CJ

BornAgain2 wrote:
I experienced something, to SOME EXTENT, like this in my previous church - the pastor of that church got hired in 1996. And supposedly, when we moved into a brand new multi-million $ building in 2004, he had this vision of doing so since he got hired by the church.

Basically, all we heard was this all the "good" things happening to this church was HIS visions ALONE.(I guess him yoking up the church with Purpose Driven was "good" too, right? Evil or Very Mad ) Next thing we know, the local seminary President who attended that church would start raving about him how he was unique b/c supposedly the average pastor tenure at a particular church is ONLY TWO years, and they would leave b/c of conflicts.

I didn't realize it then before I left in 2006, but I found out alot of things about this pastor recently. 1) In a radio interview a year later, when the interviewer asked him "What is that blessed hope?", part of his response was, "dawning of a new day" with NO mention of Jesus Christ.(FYI, dawning of a new day is a New Age occult term), 2) He also happens to be a member of that city's INTERFAITH group. I can go on and on.

Pt being that that pastor was really being hyped up by both the big whigs in the local Christian community AND the community itself. It came to a point where he was infallible, and he could do no wrong.

I mean he was doing ALL these wrong things RIGHT in front of everyone's eyes, but somehow even the SEMINARY PRESIDENT was blind to this? I'm not going to speculate whether he's a Freemason or a member of the Jesuits(although it wouldn't surprise me), but somehow, he did one heck of a job bewitching the pews and even the community around him.(ie-he also got like 2 leadership awards in the secular community)

Anyhow - yeah, the structure of this church was set up where this man was given authority, somewhat like is said in the OP. During my lifetime, the better pastors would merely fly under the radar within their churches and pews(like mine currently, it's as if noone even knows he exists).

And as for the average pastor tenure at one church being only 2 years? Uh, I don't think so - I need to research this, but just from my own eyes and observations, alot of pastors, good or bad, tend to stay at their churches for a good bit. And if they move on, it's not b/c of "conflicts", it's b/c they've gone on to missionary organizations. I have no idea where this seminary President gets his figures.

And besides, if these conflicts arise b/c the deacons and pews want to do spiritual junk like PDL and Bill Hybels, while the pastors want to stand firm in the faith, then may the Lord Jesus Christ bless that pastor even if he gets forced out for defending the faith.
CJ




There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind,
the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all. 1 Timothy 2:5
http://biblehub.com/nlt/1_timothy/2.htm


Maronite Catholic Church
The world calls them christian.
Maronites are mainly in Lebanon and Syria and part of Iraq-Turkey
The Syria Maronite Church is an Eastern Catholic Church in full communion with the pope of Rome.
The Assyrians are an ethnic group part of Iraq, part of southeast Turkey and northeast Syria, northwest Iran.  Most belong to the Assyrian Church and Chaldean Catholic Church.
http://news.assyrianchurch.org/tag/maronite-catholic-church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite_Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people
http://www.christianheadlines.com/topics/assyrian-christians
http://assyrianchristians.com


This is the best I can figure out.
If they regard a pope and Mary and saints they are NOT CHRISTIAN, they are pagan, idolators.
A Christian is an individual, not a church demonation or grouping, so some of these may be Christians, others not.

WHY do I have such passionate hatred for Romanism, vatican doctrines?
Because there is NO SALVATION FROM HELL there!
And Jesus hates it too!  People follow a pope to eternal hell!

Salvation is in Christ alone!

Do NOT pray to ANYONE but Jesus!  
Mary does NOT HEAR YOU!  Like us all, her body rots in the grave!



BornAgain2 wrote:
FYI - from what I understand, the Amish is also part of the Roman Catholic/Babylonian religions.

I always thought they were good, wholesome Christians who knew how to be unspotted from the world. But deeper study into them shows they are nothing more than a communistic, secret society/community(ie-those who join the Amish community end up giving up ALL their wealth to them, and pretty much work for nothing...just as long as they get food, clothing, housing, and "work together for the common good").



CJ

BIRTHMARKS of a CHRISTIAN
HOW to be CERTAIN of YOUR SALVATION

1 JOHN is a good read

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23

As we carefully read through 1 John, we notice a five-fold argument for the assurance of salvation, birthmarks of the Christian.

CONFESSION

The first is the birthmark of confession, described in 1 John 5:1: “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.” Before you can have assurance of salvation, you have to believe and be saved. You have to confess Jesus Christ as Lord. Some people assume they are saved because they grew up in a Christian culture, or they have gone to church all their lives, or they have been baptized, or they have tried to live a good life. Yet they’ve never distinctly and personally confessed Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord.

The Bible teaches that we are sinners, separated from God by a sinful nature. We can never earn, buy, or climb our way into heaven. By our own efforts or goodness, we can never be saved. That’s why God became a man who lived a wholly righteous life, died on the cross, shed His blood for us, and rose from the dead. He paid our penalty, took our judgment upon Himself, and He offers us the opportunity to be born again.

CHANGE

If the first birthmark is our confession of Christ as our Savior and Lord, the second is a changed life, as we see in 1 John 2:29: “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” When Jesus truly saves us, it makes a difference in how we think, act, speak, and conduct ourselves. The Bible says, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

As we begin learning to practice righteousness, our habits change. We will not be sinlessly perfect while we’re on this planet; but if we’re Christians, we need to behave like Christians. If we say we’re saved but nothing has changed about us, something is wrong. We are not saved by good works, but we are saved for good works, and the Gospel is a transforming agent in our lives.

COMPASSION  (Hating sin is still compassion)

Those who are truly saved also bear the birthmark of compassion. How can you know that you are a Christian? By what you believe, by how you live, and by whom you love. Love is a recurring theme in 1 John, and the apostle leaves no doubt about how it permeates the lives of true Christians. “Beloved,” he wrote, “let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.. . . . We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.” (1 John 4:7; 3:14).

Do you love your brothers and sisters in the family of God? Those who are truly saved are those who enjoy and bless the household of faith, the family of God.

CONFLICT

A fourth sign of being truly saved is conflict. According to 1 John 5:4, “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” The word overcome implies a struggle. We’re faced with an adversary whom we must overcome. Our adversary is identified in 1 John 2:14 as the wicked one: “I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.” John went on in the next verses to say: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:15-17).

When you’re genuinely born of God, you’ll be growing to be an overcomer as you deal with the temptations around you—the world, the flesh, and the devil. You may not be victorious over every temptation every time, but you’ll make progress in gaining more victories and losing less battles as you grow stronger in Christ and in the power of the abiding Word of God.

CONDUCT

That leads to the final point I want to make: We can see evidence for the validity of salvation in our desire to conduct ourselves in a way that pleases God. According to 1 John 3:9, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

If we’re not careful, we might interpret this verse to teach that anyone who is born of God never sins. That would conflict with other passages in the Bible that describe us as fallible and often failing.

In 1 John 3:9, the word for sin is a present active infinitive and it describes a continuous action. John is not saying that whoever sins once is not born of God. That would disqualify all of us. It would certainly disqualify me. But John is saying, in effect, “Whoever keeps on willfully sinning, violating God’s law with stubborn disregard and ongoing wickedness, cannot have assurance of salvation.”

If we are truly saved, we will grieve over our sins, confess them, and seek God’s grace to do better.

His grace is inexhaustible and His salvation is irreversible. Make sure you have confessed Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and then trust Him with your eternal future. He will never leave you or forsake you. His Word was given that you might know Jesus Christ as your Savior and that you might know that you have eternal life.

You can have assurance of salvation today. source

BELIEF  *  Beware, there are many sincere beliefs that lead to hell

We will add a #6 to this excellent list in that a born-again believer can know they are saved because they believe God’s word in the Bible. Unsaved people cannot believe God’s word and have it functioning in their lives because God says that it only works in them that believe. “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” 1 Thessalonians 2:13.

Unsaved people will often quote from the Bible for social, political or financial gain, but if someone is not a born again believer it will have no effect in their lives. There’s no repentance, no testimony of a “new life”, no victory over sin or even acknowledgement of the sin in their lives. Belief in what God has written is key, as Paul says in Romans 10:9 – “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

When I got saved, God’s word went from a dusty book I almost never read to a treasure trove that continues to delight my soul 25 years after I first became born again. If you believe the Bible when you read it – didn’t say understand it all, I said believe – then that is a rock-solid sign that you have become born again.
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=34700

Ten Questions Christians Are Asking
Pastors David Jeremiah and Edwin Lutzer both have good books on this
CJ

Things Christians Should Stop Doing on Social Media
(I do not fully agree with him, if they dont repent - call them out - publicly!)

STOP  Publicly calling people out on their sins or mistakes.
Its not your place to call other people out on their sins or mistakes, especially in public.
Christians already have a bad reputation in the land of judgment, and
the last thing we need is someone rebuking people via Twitter or Facebook.

If you really think its important, call them on the phone, or at least send them a private message.
Do us all a favor and stop your social judgment. There is no need to
publicly shame someone for something you’re probably doing yourself.

STOP   Trying to explain theological doctrine in 140 characters or less.
Theology is a subject that was never meant to be paraphrased, half-hearted, or partially explained. Take the time to write a blog post or even make a podcast.
Dont try and manipulate Biblical doctrine to fit in the form of 140 characters or less.
God’s word deserves to be drawn out, elaborated, and explained in a plethora of words.
Nuggets of partial truth will never be more fulfilling than a plate filled with the whole meal.

STOP  Getting into arguments on Facebook or Twitter.
Nobody wants to see your drama show up on their news feeds.
Maturity plays a big role in using social media. So if you claim to be a Christian,
then please keep your drama, arguments, and bickering to yourself.
The last thing someone wants to see a Christian do is argue behind the safety
of a computer screen. It’s not worth your time, nor does anyone else want to see it.
http://jarridwilson.com/3-things-...should-stop-doing-on-social-media

.
CJ

The Loneliness of the Christian
by A. W. Tozer

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from that of the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others of his kind, others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, his absorption in the love of Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The unsatisfied longings of the prophets for human understanding caused them to cry out in their complaint, and even our Lord Himself suffered in the same way.

The man [or woman] who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens.

He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else."

From Man - The Dwelling Place of God
Chapter 39:  "The Saint Must Walk Alone"
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/tozer/5j00.0010/5j00.0010.39.htm


lionspaw wrote:
The "Church" leaders had the Light in front of them, in direct contact with them, and they heard Him regularly teach, and yet Peter tells us they REJECTED Him in every way and had Him killed.

I often marvel at these Scriptures:
1 Peter 2:4-7 (New King James Version)
The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People
 
4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

     “ Behold, I lay in Zion
     A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
     And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”[a]

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,[b]

     “ The stone which the builders rejected
     Has become the chief cornerstone,”[c]

The issue is one of faith, and a touching of the heart by the Holy Spirit.  They had every chance to believe, but because of TRADITION amd FEAR they chose not to believe.   I stand amazed.  How could they miss it?  How can we miss it now?



mayito7777 wrote:
it is very sad to see how other people who called themselve "Christians' are walking so far away from God and dare to blame you for been so narrow minded, they take the Word of God and twist it and change it to serve their own personal agendas. I am so sick and tired of dealing with them, they are so blind that refused to accept the light as a false hope.
CJ

Shocked    1 in 4 Believers Are 'Christians in Name Only (NOT saved from hell)
  Exclamation  
Changing the Face of Christianity Inc., a non-profit corporation dedicated to reversing negative Christian stereotypes, has released the results of a quiz designed to determine how well Christians live the teachings of Jesus Christ. Through the quiz, the organization found that one in four self-proclaimed Christians admit that they do not live according to Christ's teachings.

The anonymous assessment consisted of 10 multiple choice questions that returned a score to the participant at the end, which then indicated to that participant if he was 'Far from Christ," a "Worldly Christian," "A Good Christian," or a "Spiritually Mature Christian," which was the highest rank possible.

The responses, which were collected over a seven-month period from January 2011 to July 2011, indicated that 23.7 percent of Christians in the pool of over 2,000 questioned were classified as "Worldly Christians" or Christians in name only, as defined by R. Brad White, the founder of Changing the Face of Christianity Inc.

"When posed with a real world situation which tests their faith, they tend to do what the rest of the world does, instead of living as Jesus instructs," White said about "Worldly Christians."

"To be clear, these aren't 'bad' people. The score results suggest they think much more about themselves than they think about God and other people. Reading the Bible and praying aren't a common practice. These are people that you would probably be surprised to find are Christian, if it weren't for the cross around their neck. These people are in the sweet spot of where we need to do our work. We are here to walk along side them, love them, educate them, mentor them, and guide them into living their faith through their words and actions."

White said this is the group his organization is particularly eager to
help to put them back on the path to righteousness.

"We are currently piloting a revolutionary way of 'doing' Christian small groups, that helps Christians live their faith; a sign of Christian maturity," he said. "Instead of just doing Bible study after Bible study, our small groups platform gets people studying, serving, praying, praising, and enjoying their lives together."
http://www.christianpost.com/news...me-only-according-to-survey-58496


ARE CARNAL 'CHRISTIANS' SAVED?
NO!  MUST READ!
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about596.html


Kids in Christian Classes Coming Out Less Christian
A two-year study of graduates from Catholic, Protestant and home schools found the choice of private education, when compared to public education, had significant effects on the students' academics, civics and faith – but not necessarily the effects one might expect. For example, the study found, the adjusted net effect on students of private, Catholic schooling versus public schooling was to produce graduates even less likely to believe in moral absolutes, to respect the authority of the Catholic Church, to believe in the infallibily of Scripture or to condemn premarital sex. The study also discovered, for example, that "the stereotypical picture of the highly political right-wing Protestant Christian is false," finding that graduates of Christian schools are less engaged in politics than their peers, as measured by talking less about politics, participating less in campaigns and donating less to political causes.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=338257

.
CJ

Christianity is thriving in China
Christianity is thriving in China. Even though sharing the gospel is illegal in the communist country, that hasn't stopped Christians from boldly proclaiming their faith.

CBN News recently joined one Chinese couple who are traveling the vast countryside to share the good news about Jesus Christ with their countrymen.

Duan Huilai said the images captured on his home video camera are proof that God is moving in China.

"This is the first time you are seeing pictures of Christians from the villages openly praising God," Huilai told CBN News.

Huilai, a Chinese evangelist, gave CBN News exclusive access to hours of video and pictures taken in dozens of locations across China.

The pictures show one thing in common: men and women of all ages being touched by the power of God.

"Everywhere I go, I meet people who are hungry for God and He is showing up," Huilai said.

Rural Life Challenging

Huilai and his wife are full-time evangelists. Since 2003, they've criss-crossed the Chinese countryside sharing the gospel.

"God called us to focus on the rural areas where life is often very difficult," Lin Aimin, Huilai's wife, said.

Difficult, yet simple in many ways. Huilai showed CBN News pictures of how people have been baptized in rural areas after they've accepted Christ into their lives.

"Sometimes I baptize them in a river," he explained. "Sometimes they are baptized in the back of a pickup truck. A couple of times I've conducted baptisms in the shower. Very often we just have to improvise."

Preaching Still Illegal

Sharing the gospel in China is still forbidden.

"I was arrested here a number of times," Huilai told CBN News as he pointed to a map of China.

Christian gatherings not sanctioned by the government are considered illegal.

"The government doesn't allow people who live in one city to travel to another city. We are mindful of the regulations," Huilai said.

Despite the government restrictions, China watchers say what's happening spiritually in the country is nothing short of remarkable.

"There are still masses of converts everyday in the countryside. It is very encouraging," said Peter, a man who has worked with China's so-called underground or house churches for decades. CBN News agreed to conceal Peter's identity to protect him.

"So many peasants in so many places are coming to Christ in large numbers," the man said, speaking from an undisclosed location.

"And the churches in many cases are maturing and getting beyond simple evangelism and reaching out to rural minority groups and unreached people groups," he said.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/...on-Chinas-Christianity-Takes-Root

Persecution purifies the Church
CJ

Before I was a Christian

At the age of 14 I was living with my dad in a little one-bedroom house. More or less it was a shack. My parents were separated. At the time my dad and I were living off a hundred dollars a week. Not much, but we made it. Both my parents really loved me, but it was many, many years later before I understood that. I had already chosen the wide path that leads to destruction. I was mad at my mom because she had kicked me out of her house . My favorite saying was "who cares." In my eyes it seemed like nobody cared. I was depressed most of the time, and hated being sober. So I would do whatever I could to keep away from reality, and get away from the feelings of hurt, fear, and rejection. As time went on I grew harder and harder. Life was rough, but I got by. One thing I will always remember was the bit of scripture my dad had taped to the cabinet over our table. It read, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Somehow that scripture always stuck with me, and I knew all would be for nothing if I lost my own soul. I figured that since I believed that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins I was okay, and I put off getting serious with God. I decided I would deal with Him when I got everything else straightened out in my life. If I had only known that He was the only one that could straighten it out.

Mushrooms and acid (LSD) had become my drugs of choice, but I had my share of cocaine, marijuana, speed, ecstasy, and if there was a pill that would make me high I took that too. I could tell you all kinds of stories about all that, but this is the story of the most important things that ever happened to me.

When I was 23 and working for a huge company as a department manager. I had just gotten back from College Station where a group of us were up there helping another store out with inventory. I went out that same night to shoot some pool. I had a few beers, and then decided I wanted something else. So I went over to a friend's house and bought a few hits of acid, ate those and went home. I laid down and spent the next five or six hours reading book written by Hermann Hesse called "Demian." I don't recommend it. After reading this book I was terribly frightened. I had a vision of myself going to war, like at the end of the world or something like that, but I was on the side that was fighting against God, and all I had were a few rocks. I thought to myself, "what could I possibly do against God with a few rocks?" I realized I was fighting on the wrong side and it was not going to go well for me, at all. I had no idea of what to do. Panic and fear gripped me. I felt as though demons were trying to take hold of me to drag me to hell. I was fighting just to stay conscience. I feared that if I let go; I would go insane.

I tried to read the bible, but that seemed to intensify my fears. I searched through some tapes of sermons my mom had sent me.
I found one that sounded like what I needed. It was titled "What Happens when you quit Running Away From God?"
I put it in my stereo and listened. This gave me a little comfort.

I finally saw who I was in the light of who He is...

It was there, laying on the floor that I found the reason for living. There on the floor as I listened to that man preach, I began to see how desperately wicked I was, that my entire existence thus far was an abomination in the light of the Author of all creation. It was there on the floor that the grim truth was revealed to me. All the motives, intents, and desires of my heart were exposed before the Living God, the very nature of my being was spread out visible to the eyes of whom I must give account. I saw that I deserved the full sentence for my sins; that I had in full measure transgressed the Law of God. I realized that the only just punishment for my sin was to spend eternity damned, separated from God, in the scorching pits of fire and brimstone, where the closest thing to comfort is the waling and gnashing of teeth. I saw that this was the only way that justice could be fulfilled for my rebellion against God Almighty, for denying Him love and obedience, and declaring my independence from Him.

As I lay there on the floor it only seemed just and fair that I should go to hell. Oh, how I had grieved the Lord with my wayward living, with my lawlessness, treating Him as though he were part of some fairytale, living as though He were not real, and making myself out to be His enemy. I had loved the sins, which He so much hated. He had reached out to me so many times. He sent people to testify of His love for me, to bring me in as one of His own, but I had wanted nothing to do with Him. Instead I wanted to have my fill of eating and drinking and worldly pleasures. I wanted to do what I wanted to do and was not going to be dictated by God's law. I had found no place for God in my heart.

I laid there on the floor with the heavy pressure of God's judgement on my heart, facing the pits of hell. Oh, how I did not want to go! If only there was another way, if only there was something I could do, but there was nothing. It was inevitable, I was doomed this time I had gone too far. He was not going to let me go this time like times before. When I had told him I would never do it again. So many times I had found myself in a hopeless situation and cried out to God for help saying, "I'll stop, I'll never do it again just please help my this once." And he always helped me, but I never stopped I just kept on sinning. Then the wretched, blind, and naked soul that I was began to weep and sob. God knew all of my secret hidden thoughts, intents, and desires. Nothing was hidden from him. Oh, how ashamed I was! All I wanted to know was how to be saved from this miserable end.

The pastor on the tape was talking about repenting from sin and giving it up. I pleaded with God, "Oh, if I had only known the severity of the consequences of what I was doing," but I had known and I had still chosen the wide path that leads to destruction. God wanted me to give up my sin, but I loved my sin. The thought of me giving up all the things I had loved to do, the music, the drugs, the drinking, the smoking, the fornication, seemed impossible. It was my life. I knew no other way. It was time to give it up or suffer the consequences. God was not going to allow me to go on sinning like that any more. I chose to repent. I told Him, "You are Lord and I'll give it all up and do what ever you want me to," then I asked him to forgive me for all my evil ways.

Grace Grace Grace...

Then as I lay there on the floor still sobbing, I began to see the beauty and perfection of God's awesome Love for me. Light began to pierce the darkness of my heart, and a warm flood of emotions seized my body. The weight of conviction began to lift. It was there on the floor, tears streaming down my eyes that I saw the true reason for God sending his son into this world. It was for terrible, rotten, no good sinners like me. Jesus was beat, whipped, mocked, and spit upon. People laughed at him, pulled out his beard, impaled a crown of thorns on his head, and nailed him to a cross where his blood flowed freely. They crucified him even though he was innocent and He endured it all for the sake of sinners like me. That through his death I might gain the gift of life, he had paid the price for my sin and bore my iniquity on the cross at Calvary. He loved me that much. As this realization of this hit me I began to laugh with tears of joy. There was nothing I could have done to save myself from hell, but God had done something already. I realized it wasn't just believing about Him, but knowing Him and surrendering to his authority in submission. I finally really understood the old hymn, "Amazing Grace How Sweet the Sound That Saved a Wretch Like Me, I Once Was Lost but Now I'm Found ‘Twas Blind but Now I See."

So now I ask you - where are you with God? Do you know Jesus? He said, "Not every one that says ‘Lord, Lord,' will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of My Father. Many will say in that day, ‘Did we not do all these wonderful things in Your name?' But He will say, ‘Depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you.'" We are told in the Bible that "He who says, he knows God, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." We are also told, "Love not the world nor the things that are in the world, if any man love the things of the world, the love of the Father is not in him." Jesus has called us to give up our worldly lives and serve Him. Anything that you find more important than Jesus is an idol. Think about it. Is there anything that you wouldn't give up for Jesus? What about your house, your job, your car, friends, clothes, television, music, anything that you are not willing to give up is an idol, and you are not worthy to follow Him, until you lay it at His feet in submission. Our God is a jealous God, and will have no other gods before Him. A man cannot have two masters, either he will love one or hate the other. A friend of the world is an enemy of God. Jesus said, "He who saves his life will lose it, but he who loses his life for My sake shall save it."

We were bought with a price, we are not our own. God paid for us with the precious blood of his Son Jesus Christ. You are in complete rebellion against God until you quit playing god with your own life and put it back into the hands of Jesus to whom it belongs. As long as you keep rebelling against Jesus you are denying him the Glory, love and obedience he deserves. God hates sin, and all of your sin will be exposed before the light and be judged, unless you repent. For the wages of sin is death. Jesus said, "wide is the path that leads to destruction and many there be that follow it, but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it." Jesus is the Life, and the only way to Jesus is to repent from your sin, give it up, and let it go for good. Be obedient and do whatever Jesus tells you to. Jesus died for you, that you may have life eternal.

Revelation 21:8 reads:
"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have there part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone."

So what are you going to say on Judgement Day? What excuse will you give for your sin? I tell you, you will have no excuse for you have been warned.
It is time that you make a decision: are you going to serve the world and Satan, or Jesus and the Kingdom of God?
http://www.ferventinspirit.com/testimony.htm

* posted by .BornAgain2
CJ

Greece Financial Crisis Opens Door for Gospel
PRAY for Greece and Christian ministries there.
The Greek government fell into chaos when Greece prime minister called for a referendum on a new debt deal.
There was a new agreement that updates the previous agreement that was approved, so that has to be approved by the Greek Parliament again.
Eurozone leaders agreed on a second financial rescue for Greece in return for more unpopular austerity.

The angry Greeks are unlikely to like this, so the PM wants a vote in January.
However, the revolt came from Greek lawmakers who planned a no-confidence vote.
There is a possibility of a government collapse, and Europe is alarmed.
Greece could spark a financial market panic that could hurt other shaky European economies.

Germany and France are very upset because this undermines their efforts to save the euro, and Greeks dont care about the euro.
However, they dont realize the cost.  The debt deal was meant to help Greece stay out of bankruptcy.

People are trying to leave Greece to pursue a better future.  Thousands of Greeks have filed to immigrate to Australia and other countries.
The middle class started feeling the pressure as the cuts in salaries and heavy taxation increased.
BUT THE SITUATION is the SAME - WORLDWIDE!

PRAY for St. Luke and staff
The facility is under Greek public health system and depends on government payments for its financial well-being.
The Greek government owes the hospital a tremendous amount of money and needs help.

AMG (Christian ministry dealing with hospitals) Christians run St. Luke Hospital in Thessalonica and CosmoVision Center in Athens.
AMG continues to proclaim the gospel and the hope found in Christ. There is definitely a lot more interest in spiritual matters.
People are desperate. And when people get desperate, they tend to do a lot of soul searching, great opportunity to share the gospel.
The mobile medical unit can minister to Muslims in northern Greece.

Greece is a spiritual battleground
We need prayer for our leaders of the ministry, particularly St. Luke.
We need prayer for Greece, that God will work in the hearts of the people and the hearts of the leaders, and that there is a resolution.
http://www.charismanews.com/marke...cial-crisis-opens-door-for-gospel


GREECE NEWS  -  thread in WORLD NEWS
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about471.html

.
CJ

What is Antinomianism?
A.W. Tozer said - The Antinomians are Coming
Paths to Power, A.W. Tozer defined it this way.
Fundamental Christianity in our times is deeply influenced by that ancient enemy of righteousness, Antinomianism.

The creed of the Antinomian is easily stated:
We are saved by faith alone; works have no place in salvation; conduct is works, and is therefore of no importance.
What we do cannot matter as long as we believe rightly. The divorce between creed and conduct is absolute and final.

The question of sin is settled by the Cross; conduct is outside the circle of faith and cannot come between the believer and God.

Such in brief, is the teaching of the Antinomian.
And so fully has it permeated the Fundamental element in modern Christianity that it is accepted by the religious masses as the very truth of God.

Antinomianism is the doctrine of grace carried by uncorrected logic to the point of absurdity.
It takes the teaching of justification by faith and twists it into deformity."

CC wrote:
,
In layman's terms I would understand Tozer to say that the idea or doctrine of: so long as you got your ticket punched for the train to heaven, you can do whatever you want.  Even if you commit murder you're still going to heaven.  It translates into, some 50 odd years later, as "Easy Believeism".

So it would appear that Tozer was 100% correct in his assessment.  What he saw starting in his time, is full blown and main stream in ours.

You've also touched on a salvation issue, whether or not one can be saved under "easy believeism", and may be viewed as a judgmental type issue, and shouldn't be discussed.

The word itself means "against law".
The movement was started "by John Agricola about the year 1538."


Yes I'd say Antinomianism is - as you put it - easy believism.  Some say cheap grace.

There is a fine line to everything.  Each person ought to be careful how they word what they post.
If they do, open discussion should be just fine.

We are to study to show ourselves approved unto GOD. ... And we are to share with one another the lessons HE teaches us.
The older are to teach the younger.  The younger are to respect the older.  (I am a Senior citizen.)

Antinomian would come to bear on OSAS / ES .. correct.
The Apostle Paul judge the man in sin in 1 Corinthians - and told that church to THROW HIM OUT.
To say - dont ever judge - is unbiblical.

For me to say - 'You' are going to hell - that would be outside any of our jurisdiction.  

We are to follow Christ, His teachings, His written word.  
We are to avoid even the appearance of Evil.
We are to live holy.

We are to love one another.  There is no love if there is no Truth - no rebuke when warranted.

Yes the evils Tozer saw have become full blown today.  True.  There are so many  false churches that they outnumber the true ones.
That is why so many Christians with a very close relationship to the LORD are unchurched.

I suspect many in today's churches will not be in heaven.  Very sad thought.

I do not believe one is allowed to live in sin(s) after one becomes saved.  Grace is given to the newly saved.
Jesus accepts us as we are - but He loves us too much to leave us there.
CJ

My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow me.
If they don't hear (obey) My voice, but prefer the doctrines of men then they aren't mine, they worship Me in vain, and I will not know them and they are not My sheep.

Titus 2
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say No to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age while we wait for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.


A Workman Approved by God *  2 Timothy 2
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth.

They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,”a and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Romans 12
I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.

1 Chronicles 28:9
Acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

I the LORD do not change. Malachi 3:6

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8
CJ




My sheep know My Voice - and OBEY Me.

This article by Tozer should be read and reread over,
to be certain of grasping what the Lord wants us to understand clearly.

I often see a parent telling their children to mind and let it go at that.
Instead of following through with their orders, they let the child do what they wanted to,
while the parent go to their tasks.  The idea is to finish your job completely and correctly.
There are a few that do believe in the importance of OBEDIENCE, but far too few.


OBEDIENCE, a Neglected Doctrine

By A. W. Tozer

There is what William James called a certain blindness in human beings that prevents us from seeing what we do not want to see. This, along with the direct work of the devil himself, may account for the fact that the doctrine of obedience is so largely neglected in modern religious circles.

That God expects us to be "obedient children" is admitted, of course, but it is seldom stressed sufficiently to get action.  Many people seem to feel that our obligation to obey has been discharged by the act of believing on Jesus Christ at the beginning of our Christian lives.

We should remember that the will is the seat of true religion in the soul.
Nothing genuine has been done in a man or woman's life until his or her will has been surrendered in active obedience. It was disobedience that brought about the ruin of the race. It is the "obedience of faith" that brings us back again into divine favor.

A world of confusion and disappointment results from trying to believe without obeying. This puts us in the position of a bird trying to fly with one wing folded.  We merely flap in a circle and seek to cheer our hearts with the hope that the whirling ball of feathers is proof that a revival is under way.  A good deal of praying at our camp meeting altars has the identical effect of a good cry.  It releases pent-up emotions and relaxes tense nerves.  The smile that follows is accepted by the eager helpers as evidence that a deep spiritual work has been done. This can be for some people a tragic error, resulting in permanent injury and loss to the spiritual life.

A mere passive surrender may be no surrender at all.  Any real submission to the will of God must include willingness to take orders from Him from that time on. When the heart is irrevocably committed to receiving and obeying orders from the Lord Himself, a specific work has been done, but not until then.

We are not likely to see among us any remarkable transformations of individuals or churches until the Lord's ministers again give to obedience the place of prominence it occupies in the Scriptures.

`
CJ

CAST SHEEP
Psalm 23  *  Matthew 25

A prophetic word for the church today, which came after reading the book,
A shepherd looks at the 23rd psalm.  Also read Matthew 25

TRY NOT to think of how sheep are raised today - with dogs.
The sheep in this word are those who believe they belong to Jesus, the Shepherd.
I take this as a serious word from GOD - FOR HIS PEOPLE, HIS CHURCH!

A Cast sheep is a sheep that has rolled over onto its back and may not be able to get up without assistance, one that
has been feeding and lain down, its feet get off center where they cant touch the ground and then roll onto its back

Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 51


WOE!  WOE!
We have walked into the valley of cast sheep


The sheep have strayed from the Shepherd and have grown weary and laid down.
They have rolled over and become cast, and they cannot rise.

The sheep have wandered into the valley away from the Shepherd.  Their independance has made them tired.
They seek to lie, and in lying down and becoming comfortable they become cast.
Some are overladen with wool, the wool is caked with the dirt - the sins of this world.
The weight of the dirty wool pulls it down.  It rolls over and becomes cast.
It cannot control itself, its feet flip in the air and it becomes cast.

When a sheep becomes cast the gases of its stomach build up in its rumen and the pressure builds and
cuts off circulation.  The Blood cannot do its job, and the sheep perishs.


BLEAT!  BLEAT!
The Shepherd will come if the sheep cry out.  The sheep must call out - before they die.
The Shepherd will come and right them, hold them up until the pressure is disipated and strength returns to the legs.
He will pick up the sheep and carry it back to the herd.

Jesus is The Shepherd.  His sheep MUST CALL HIM when they know they are helpless.
His sheep need never become cast - if they will stay close to The Shepherd.
CALL HIM!  Before you die!

People go to church.  They do what they think is their religious duty, and they leave,
touching no one and allowing no one to touch them, not even the LORD.
CJ

SOCIAL JUSTICE IS NOT CHRISTIAN CHARITY
By Paul Proctor -  Social justice is a perversion of the Gospel
LOOK for the words 'social justice' or 'economic justice' on your church Web site.
If you find it, run as fast as you can.
Social justice and economic justice, they are code words.

The implication here is that these “code words” signify the Church’s infiltration by two tyrannical extremes of the political spectrum:
Nazis to the right and Marxists to the left – both attempting to advance unbiblical agendas in and through the Church.

Although I hesitate to point blank call fellow Christians “Marxists” and “Nazis,”
I am acutely aware of ungodly influences from both sides of the aisle adversely affecting the Church today
and have addressed the issue on numerous occasions over the years, concluding a November 2000 article with the following:

 "Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,
they both march in the same direction.”

Glenn Beck is a Mormon.
There are more than a few things he and I would not agree on. But, he is right about social justice being a perversion of the Gospel and “progressives” being a danger to the Church. In fact, I tackled the topic of “social justice” in three recent and consecutive articles for NewsWithViews.com.

Since social justice in the church has now made front-page headlines due to Beck’s recent comments, I thought it prudent to revisit the issue again from a Biblical perspective and point out a couple of the things that are conspicuously absent from all of the heated rhetoric and media coverage.

ABC News’ story on the controversy noted what appears to be a little backpedaling and damage control from one of Glenn Beck’s producers:

   Stu Burguiere, executive producer at "The Glenn Beck Radio Program," sought to clarify Beck's comments today.

   "Like most Americans, Glenn strongly supports and believes in 'social justice' when it is defined as 'good Christian charity,'" he said. "Glenn strongly opposes when Rev. Wright and other leaders use 'social justice' as a euphemism for their real intention -- redistribution of wealth."

But you see, in my estimation, it is the contrived and duplicitous definition of “social justice” that is causing all the confusion.

Social justice is not Christian charity

You will find the word “justice” in scripture, as you will the word “gospel” – but you won’t find the word “social” in front of either of them because “social justice,” like the “social gospel,” is the wily work of men, not the Will and Word of God. Jesus Christ did not suffer and die on a cross so we could repair, remodel and rehabilitate a wicked world for Him to rule over, but instead to redeem us from it for a “kingdom not of this world.”

If someone doesn’t speak up and point this out, the issue will be forever confusing, controversial and divisive and the Church will continue to be swayed off course by those with political ambitions.

Scriptures containing the words “justice,” “justly,” and “judgment” that progressives handily quote to try and validate “social justice” as a Christian concept and mandate for the Church are predominately from the Old Testament, which is ironic considering progressives by and large prefer to dismiss or discount much of the OT and its so called “legalism” because it inconveniently clashes with their no-absolutes and no-authority philosophies, theologies and lifestyles. Frankly, it is God’s justice and judgments throughout the Old Testament that confound and offend progressives the most about the Bible resulting in the sleazy greasy grace they preach and practice as “Christianity.”

But, the term “social justice” puts global change agents in the driver’s seat down at the church house allowing them, through carefully placed operatives, endless opportunities to enable, justify and even promote, via the humanist mantra of “tolerance, diversity and unity,” any number of unbiblical behaviors, theories, religions and causes from promoting promiscuity, to homosexuality, to syncretism, to abortion rights, to euthanasia, to birth control, to stem cell research, to Darwinism, to faith-based initiatives, to “no child left behind,” to global warming, to you name it – which fits in perfectly with the United Nation’s plan for a one-world government, one world economy and one world religion.

The New Testament scriptures most often cited by progressives to support “social justice” are not about justice at all, but about charity. Even so, they use the words “justice” and “charity” as if they were synonymous, and in doing so, morph and merge social/political issues and programs into moral/religious issues and programs while steering the Church’s focus and attention away from the spiritual and eternal to the more carnal and worldly.

It has also been my observation that embracing “social justice,” more often than not, shifts the emphasis from repentance and faith in Jesus Christ to more earthly endeavors like environment, empowerment, employment, entitlements, equality and esteem-building programs promoted by global elites to benefit or punish selected people groups as needed for its “sustainable development” – an agenda more in keeping with that of a community organizer than a follower of Christ.

Justice is about righting a wrong, defending the innocent and punishing the guilty. It is a commendable work but it is not Christian charity.

Charity is about generously and sacrifically helping, serving and providing for someone in need. The Good Samaritan did not stop to exercise “social justice” when he found the man wounded and robbed by thieves along the road in Jesus’ parable as recorded in Luke 10:30-37. He demonstrated compassion toward the victim of a crime, not because he was socially, ethnically or financially disadvantaged, but because he was simply a “neighbor” in need.

Furthermore, the Good Samaritan didn’t go after the thieves to recover the man’s belongings, avenge his abuse, have them arrested and start a traveler’s protection and possessions recovery program at the local synagogue because that’s not what Jesus was teaching His followers in the parable to do – nor was it the mission of His coming.

If you steal someone’s money, it is “justice” that sees it returned to its rightful owner and/or has you punished – not “charity.” Charity has empathy for those in need and shares with them, cares for them, comforts them, encourages them, prays for them and provides for them as a divine demonstration of God’s love, compassion and generosity. In doing so, we bless others as God has blessed us in our time of need. Christian charity is a picture of the Gospel and God’s grace toward the spiritual poverty and desperation of a lost soul.

This is the age of grace, my friends, not the age of justice.

If anyone wanted and needed “social justice” during Jesus’ earthly ministry, it was the Samaritans, as revealed by Jesus’ encounter with the woman at the well, who told Him: “…the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.” But, Jesus didn’t offer her social justice – He offered her “living water” which had nothing to do with her social status, rights or economic condition.

But, if you synthesize the two words “justice” and “charity” in Hegelian Dialectic fashion, as “progressives” in the church have so shrewdly done, you end up with a hybrid gospel that does not demonstrate the love, grace, mercy and generosity of God at all, but a government-approved, politically-correct, humanistic religion called "collectivism" that glorifies the brotherhood of man through “good works” for the benefit and advancement of an earthly kingdom instead of glorifying God through His work on the cross of Christ for a heavenly kingdom.

Christians need to be very careful about setting aside the Gospel to pursue “social justice.” Jesus took our justice on Calvary’s cross that we might receive and reflect God’s grace and forgiveness.

Is it social justice the Lord is calling us to or Christian charity?

You see, Jesus told another parable in Matthew 18 about a king whose servant owed him ten thousand talents. When the servant couldn’t pay, the king ordered him and his family sold to make restitution. When the servant fell at the king’s feet and begged for patience, the king had compassion on him and forgave the debt.

That same servant then found a fellow servant who owed him a hundred pence and demanded payment. When the fellow servant fell at his feet and asked for patience, the king’s servant would have none of it and had his fellow servant thrown in prison. When the king found out that his servant did not show the same compassion and pity toward his fellow servant, the king had his servant thrown in prison as well until he could pay back all that he owed.

Charity moved the king to forgive his servant’s debt.
Justice compelled the king to later throw that uncharitable servant into prison.

So, what are we to learn from Jesus’ parables – social justice or Christian charity?
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor204.htm

Mormonism is Satanism, NOT christian
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about291.html

.
CJ

CBN - UK's war on Christianity - VIDEO

Just a few notes:

1) People are getting fired from their jobs in the UK just b/c they either refuse to take a homosexual sensitivity class or merely tell a gay person the errors of their ways

2) Tony Blair was responsible for alot of these gay rights policies et al, and Obama's hate crimes bill could follow America in the same way the UK is going now

3) Islam is growing at a rapid pace in the UK

4) BBC hired a Muslim to run their religious media programs - they made one movie over violent Christians killing Muslims


ISLAM CONQUORED the EU
ISLAM means submit - to Islam - to satan

Islam has conquored the UK entirely.
Islam had conquored the USA also,
then we called President Donald Trump  Very Happy

We had a Muslim in power in the whitehouse for 8 years.
March 22, 2010  he made America an Islamic nation but called it ObamaCare.
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about525.html
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about407.html

Christian Persecution Growing in Amerika
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about790.html

What the bible predicts for the End Times has already begun.
Life will never be the same again.  Its changing faster than people can keep up - for the worse.
Yet most remain in dangerous denial.

Dont count on November elections to help us.
CJ




Attacks against Christian Flag here in the USA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201010...re_us/us_christian_flag_defenders

In the sidebar is a video and in it a lady said... "it is time to defend our right to be a Christian" AMEN!!!!
it is about the right to be Christian. She is fighting for the right to be Christian, a right we all are giving up without a fight. It is not about the flag but the attack against our Christian faith.


I do NOT pledge allegiance to the flag anymore.  I used to.
The LORD convicted me NOT to pledge my allegiance to any but Him.
Patriotism is misplaced and closer to idolatry.
THIS is NO LONG AMERICA.  IT HAS CHANGED.  IT IS NOW WICKEDNESS.
CJ

Southern Baptist leader on yoga, Not Christianity

2 Corinthians 6
14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

6  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Cor 10:21  
Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils:
ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201010..._re/us_rel_southern_baptists_yoga


October  7,  2010     LOUISVILLE, Kentucky

A Southern Baptist leader who is calling for Christians to avoid yoga and its spiritual attachments is getting plenty of pushback from enthusiasts who defend the ancient practice.
Southern Baptist Seminary President Albert Mohler says the stretching and meditative discipline derived from Eastern religions is not a Christian pathway to God.

Mohler said he objects to "the idea that the body is a vehicle for reaching consciousness with the divine."

"That's just not Christianity," Mohler told The Associated Press.

Mohler said feedback has come through e-mail and comments on blogs and other websites since he wrote an essay to address questions about yoga he has heard for years.
"I'm really surprised by the depth of the commitment to yoga found on the part of many who identify as Christians," Mohler said.

Yoga fans say their numbers have been growing in the U.S. A 2008 study by the Yoga Journal put the number at 15.8 million, or nearly 7 percent of adults.
About 6.7 percent of American adults are Southern Baptists, according to a 2007 survey by the Pew Research Center Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Mohler argued in his online essay last month that Christians who practice yoga "must either deny the reality of what yoga represents or fail to see the contradictions between their Christian commitments and their embrace of yoga."

He said his view is "not an eccentric Christian position."

Other Christian leaders have said practicing yoga is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. Pat Robertson has called the chanting and other spiritual components that go along with yoga "really spooky."
California megachurch pastor John MacArthur called yoga a "false religion." Muslim clerics have banned Muslims from practicing yoga in Egypt, Malaysia and Indonesia, citing similar concerns.

Yoga proponents say the wide-ranging discipline, which originated in India, offers physical and mental healing through stretching poses and concentration.
"Lots of people come to yoga because they are often in chronic pain. Others come because they think it's a nice workout," said Allison Terracio, who runs the Infinite Bliss studio in Louisville.

And some yoga studios have made the techniques more palatable for Christians by removing the chanting and associations to eastern religions, namely Hinduism and its multiple deities.

Stephanie Dillon, who has injected Christian themes into her studio in Louisville, said yoga brought her closer to her Christian faith, which had faded after college and service in the Army.
"What I found is that it opened my spirit, it renewed my spirituality," Dillon said. "That happened first and then I went back to church." Dillon attends Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and says many evangelical Christians from the church attend her yoga classes.
She said she prayed on the question of whether to mix yoga and Christianity before opening her studio, PM Yoga, where she discusses her relationship with Jesus during classes.

"My objection (to Mohler's view) personally is that I feel that yoga enhances a person's spirituality," Dillon said. "I don't like to look at religion from a law standpoint but a relationship standpoint, a relationship with Jesus Christ specifically."

Mohler wrote the essay after reading "The Subtle Body," where author Stefanie Syman traces the history of yoga in America. Syman noted the growing popularity of yoga in the U.S. by pointing out that first lady Michelle Obama has added it to the festivities at the annual White House Easter Egg Roll on the front lawn.

Mohler said many people have written him to say they're simply doing exercises and forgoing yoga's eastern mysticism and meditation.
"My response to that would be simple and straightforward: You're just not doing yoga," Mohler said.
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
AVOID YOGA!

Eastern cults invite demons.
Yoga is part of eastern cults.

There are plenty of exercise programs!  
yoga is not christian.
CJ

U.S.-Australian refugee exchange
Jan 29, 2017  
-  Christian refugees from Manus Island and Nauru will be resettled in the United States, per agreement between US President Donald Trump and Australia Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.  Some of the refugees that the US has agreed to take from Australia are Christians, some from the Middle East.  They have been vetted by Australia already, and the United States will vet them again as a further protection.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/3518746/posts

Very Happy
CJ

DO NOT pray to ANYONE but Jesus!  
There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all.
1 Timothy 2:5
http://biblehub.com/nlt/1_timothy/2.htm


New Christian Left Is Twisting the Gospel
Mar 23, 2017  
-  If you think killing babies and same sex lust is OK, you disagree with God.  Phony preachers use words like choice, coexist, tolerate - Jesus Christ used - SIN.  We are to care enuf about souls to warn them their path leads to hell - not say - we dont care what they do its their choice.  There is an expanding gulf between biblical Christian teachings and what the fake churchs preach today.

The true Gospel IS NOT filled with compromise.
There is no social gospel, that is false!
In fact I suspect that is the Revelation 6 white horse - phony.
The term - evangelical - does NOT mean CHRISTIAN.
I re-wrote this article
http://www.charismamag.com/life/c...stian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel

Is gay OK?
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about1269.html

Are CARNAL CHRISTIANS Saved ?
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about596.html

MOST 'CHRISTIANS'  ARE  LOST, DAMNED!!
Most only think they are christian but have never been saved from hell - MOST
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about985.html

CHRISTIANITY * True and False Christian Doctrines
http://cj.myfreeforum.org/about2833.html


The Case for Christ
EXCELLENT Christian movie



BornAgain2

Thank you, I will read it later.

Yeah, I'm starting to notice things that are just incredibly unprecedented now.

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